2014 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[MSDOGS1976]

I think some of you are missing the point. In fact, I know you are missing the point. Think about it... go through the process.

Nothing to think about. Its not as hard as some of you want to make it. Play good golf, you win.

[joekelly]

You can play the best golf of your life and still lose. That's what competition is all about.  Someone else wants the same prize and competes against  you for it.

If there is no competition, just you out in the course having a great day, then YES, you can choose to be a 'winner'.

[jmanbooyaa]

I think while poor timing Phil was just fed up with losing. I do think the matchups were ilconceived today as well as the pairings. Yes the Euros beat us and deserve to be commended for the win. They beat us. That being said we had many many opportunities. Fowler should not have played Rory. The year Rors had and the fact that Fowler has only beaten him once says a lot. Fowler is making huge improvements to his game but isn't there just yet. I wish Watson would have had him go against someone else today. Bubba vs kaymer bad match up as well as Furyk vs Garcia. Fowler Garcia would have been a terrific matchup. Next the sitting of Mickelson/Bradley day 2 was as foolish as Phil playing 2 times Friday. Bubba and Simpson was another poor match up. Simpson on the team was another bad choice. I know it sounds like I am bashing Watson as a captain maybe I am just think there was some errors made and of course the players need to take some responsibility. They didn't play all that well. But congrats to thr Euros for winning again. 2016 perhaps.

[Valleygolfer]

I agree Watson made some bad decisions. I also like that someone is bringing up Azinger and the pods system. It doesn't guarantee a win but it's what they do in President's Cups and similar to what Europe does.

I just don't think the right place to do it is in a press conference in front of your captain who is a well respected "elder statesman" in the game of golf. Just not a good PR move.

Maybe Phil and the guys had some ideas and they fell on deaf ears and he was frustrated. Let him say it. Sometimes you have to say something and accept that it is not the popular opinion.

[mvmac]

[Mr. Desmond]

They lost a bet?

[trickyputt]

Thats poor timing. Indicates what the euros are talking about.

[MS256]

Poor timing at least. Can you imagine the reaction a coach in any team sport would have to a player posting that right after a big loss?

[Kingkat1954]

I am wondering if Team USA are disgusted because they could not win..............or just did not win.........?

Almost like they believed they were the underdogs.....................and then just stayed there.  They did not play like they could win. Like a previous post, they played well enough for a good top 10 finish. Nothing more.

As for Phil........good ideas.............wrong place to say it. Makes him look like a very poor loser. Mahan looked embarrassed next to him.

Watson held his own, but I suspect he will have choice words about it. Never one to back down from comments.

PGA needs to revamp their selection process. Allow the players more input. That should help create a sense of ownership. PODS or not, everyone needs to feel like they are part of a team.

Create a system for future RC captains. Make current Assistants the group you select for the next RC captain.  Like the Euro team does.

Allow for more captain selections. Money leaders may be a little outdated for entry onto team. Make some changes, shake it up!

The other thing I would do...................and I know this is not very nice............but I would ditch the Presidents Cup.

Oh yea.....................try a little harder and design better outfits for team USA.  I was not impressed at all. Well, the hats were nice!

[jmanbooyaa]

The uniforms were unimpressive.

[skydog]

Mickelson

Furyk

Z. Johnson

Kuchar

Mahan

Simpson

The Euros are going to be very tough to beat for the foreseeable future, so better bring in guys who do not have the scar tissue.

Couldn't agree more. Tom needed to break the status quo this year to have a chance- his picks were status quo, halfway nostalgic (Bradley) and brought nothing to the table (Simpson). The problem is- as a captain you basically have to throw out everything you know about a player in stroke play events. The Americans are loaded with great players who flat out suck in Ryder Cup for a multitude of reasons- Mickelson, Furyk, Mahan, Kuchar, Tiger, etc. while the Euros who have choke artist underperformers in stroke play who get it done in the RC- Poulter, Sergio, Westwood, etc. Find more guys like Patrick Reed; I think Horschel will be one in the future as well. But forget about the same guys who have brought us nothing but losses over the past two decades.

[trickyputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickyputt

Thats poor timing. Indicates what the euros are talking about.

Poor timing at least. Can you imagine the reaction a coach in any team sport would have to a player posting that right after a big loss?

My In-Laws are from the upper Northeast. They wouldnt understand me in a pic like that under any circumstance.

[Dave2512]

I think too much is being made of the strength of the Euro team. Sergio and Rory didn't curb stomp anyone and it's not like Westwood, Gallacher, Bjorn, and Donaldson strike fear in the hearts of people. There were plenty of chances the US team didn't take advantage of. There were some bad decisions and there was definitely some bad golf. Right up to Sat afternoon I felt the US should be leading and in control. But I think some of the problems started before the matches, too much emphasis on chemistry.

[flopster]

Well there we are, the 2016 uniforms.

[sgt1372]

Haven't read the entire thread since the morning's loss reported loss of the Ryder Cup (again) by the US  So, please forgive any redundancy, but here are my observations:

Mickelson was frustrated and was asked for an opinion about what he thought could have helped the US win in the future.  He expressed his opinion and he was entitled to do so.  The whole notion that golf is a "gentleman's sport" and that such things should only be discussed in "private" in this day and age is pure bunk.

Yeah, Phil could have bit his tongue and saved his opinion for later but obviously Watson wasn't buying Phil's point of view at the press conference and any conversation that Phil might have had w/Tom in private would simply have fallen on deaf ears.  Could have Phil handled it better?.  Probably but he didn't.  Get over it!

Watson made some obvious mistakes.  Playing Mickelson twice (36 holes on Day 1) and then benching him AND Bradley the entire day on Day 2 after they were rested.  Tiring out Fowler/Walker by playing them 4 rounds in a row on Days 1 and 2.  Benching his hot hands in Speith and Reed in the 2nd 1/2 of Day 1 also didn't make much sense and contradicted what Watson earlier said he would do; that is, play his hot hands.  Also Watson's "Captain's" picks obviously sucked.  Bradley was 1-2-0, Mahan was  1-2-1 and Simpson was 0-1-1. Notably, none of them won their singles match.  But were any of these things the major cause of the loss?   Who knows?

What certainly was a major cause of the loss was the pathetic collective performance of the top ranked "veteran" players on the team.  Bubba (#7) was 0-3-0, Fowler (#10) was 0-2-3 and Furyk (#4) was 1-3-0.  Didn't help that Johnson (#15) was 0-2-1 and Kuchar (#9) was 1-3-0 .  In fact, Phil's (#11) performance was the best of the lot at 2-1-0.  That's was a combined record of 4-14-4 or just 4 wins out of 22 matches and a total of 6 points out of a possible 22 contributed by the team's top rated players, which was pretty f*cking pathetic.

Was that Watson's fault?  Absolutely NOT and Watson wasn't hesitant to point his finger in THAT direction at the press conference, which wasn't very "diplomatic" or gentlemanly of him either.  Bottom line, the Europeans flat outplayed the US and they won in more than convincing fashion.  They deserved it and should be congratulated for it.

The only bright note for the US in this year's Ryder Cup was the performance of  the "rookies" Spieth (2-1-1) and Reed (3-0-1) and Walker (1-1-3), who collectively scored 6-2-5 or 8 1/2 out of the 11 1/2 points for the US team.  Without them, the US team could have lost by MORE than 5 points and that thought simply boggles the mind.

[brookter]

I do think the matchups were ilconceived today as well as the pairings. Yes the Euros beat us and deserve to be commended for the win. They beat us. That being said we had many many opportunities. Fowler should not have played Rory. [....] Fowler Garcia would have been a terrific matchup.

It's a blind selection: both Captains submit their list independently so they don't know who each player will be up against beforehand. Tom Watson had no way of knowing that Fowler would play McIlroy, other than trying to second guess McGinley's order of play.

Other thoughts:

Garcia and Poulter each had two or three moments of brilliance in their matches on Friday (SG) and Saturday (both), but they were really poor otherwise before Sunday. If McIroy had been paired with another player for those matches, there's a good chance he would have scored another point or two. But Sergio and Poults did have those moments of brilliance, so McGinley's 'mistake' in selecting the pairs is ignored. By and large, the US pairings which failed didn't have those 'redemptive' moments and Watson's captaincy looks worse in hindsight because the US lost, whilst everything McGinley did looks like genius.

I'm not saying Watson got everything right, but I think some of the criticism is too harsh. I also have to say that Phil Mickelson was totally wrong to act as he did: completely classless.

[Silent]

Also Watson's "Captain's" picks obviously sucked.  Bradley was 1-2-0, Mahan was  1-2-1 and Simpson was 0-1-1. Notably, none of them won their singles match.

Performances of Euro's captain's picks:

Gallacher: 0 points (2 matches)

Poulter: 1 point (3 matches, no wins)

Westwood: 2 points (4 matches)

Also none of them won their singles match. Form of the day aside, mostly captain's picks are not as good golfers as the rest of the field, otherwise they would have qualified automatically I guess.

[natureboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydog

2.) We need a captain who relies on more than hunches in the Foursomes segment and need to do our best to put together some kind of 'Money Ball' style formula to figure out pairings for alternate shot.

Hire Mark Broadie as a consultant. I agree that the Euros probably use a combination of personality matching and Strokes Gained analysis to find pairings that complement each other. For example, I think I saw that Hunter Mahan wasn't on the tee for the odd holes, because his partner (don't remember who) was a better putter. I looked at the 2013 stats and they were about equally matched in SGP. Now in Stokes Gained Driving, Mahan blew the other guy away. So that was taking away a bigger skill advantage for a smaller one. Only made a difference for one hole, though, I suppose.

Quote:

3.) 95% of the American team can't play in cold/inclement weather. Watching every American come up 1-2 clubs short every day on 17 this week was infuriaiting because they apparently can't figure out the ball doesn't travel as far in cold Scotland as it does in Orlando. Obviously we can't control the Euro course choice but choosing to play in Minnesota (or Chicago) in late September is idiotic and gives the Euros a clear advantage. In the future the PGA has to be smarter about our course choices and factor weather into the equation.

Not just club selection, but possibly comfort and energy levels too. I think the chill may have had an impact on the slightly older U.S. squad and Phil in particular due to his arthritis issue. If it had been perfect conditions, I think the European players probably still would have been in better form.