2014 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[misty_mountainhop]

When it comes down to it, the players have to play their best. To me the US golfers are just not up to the standard. I can understand that as well. In terms of number of golfers European team has a deeper field to choose from. It's the same reason why the largest countries dominate the Olympics, they have more athletes. European countries combined have about double the population of the USA. Given they still choose the top players to compete, it is a bit closer than double in terms of depth, but in the end there is a slight edge. The European teams might have 1-3 more overall better players than the US team, depending on the year. It is pretty clear, that ever since they opened the Ryder Cup up to all other European countries that it has gotten much more competitive and more towards the European's favor.

I also think the Europeans get motivated more for this event. The energy is so much different. I am not sure if it is a culture thing. Maybe US golfers are just more in tune with normal golf tournament play. Get to the course, be stoic and do your job. It always seems that European players are more inclined to be more out going and competitive in that nature.

True, technically there's more people in Europe but I'm not sure what the propensity to play golf is outside of western Europe and the Scandinavian countries. What does it say about the way the rankings system works?

The European team does seem to get up for it in ways the U.S. players don't. Are the U.S. intimidated by the whole event? Not something I'd normally think, I have to admit. Ah well, here's to Hazeltine(?) in 2016.

[saevel25]

True, technically there's more people in Europe but I'm not sure what the propensity to play golf is outside of western Europe and the Scandinavian countries. What does it say about the way the rankings system works?

The European team does seem to get up for it in ways the U.S. players don't. Are the U.S. intimidated by the whole event? Not something I'd normally think, I have to admit. Ah well, here's to Hazeltine(?) in 2016.

Not sure about intimidated, but I am wondering if they just don't know how to handle the pressure of playing for a team. It just seems Europeans have more team camaraderie than the US teams.

[FarawayFairways]

In terms of number of golfers European team has a deeper field to choose from. It's the same reason why the largest countries dominate the Olympics, they have more athletes. European countries combined have about double the population of the USA. Given they still choose the top players to compete, it is a bit closer than double in terms of depth, but in the end there is a slight edge. The European teams might have 1-3 more overall better players than the US team, depending on the year. It is pretty clear, that ever since they opened the Ryder Cup up to all other European countries that it has gotten much more competitive and more towards the European's favor.

I also think the Europeans get motivated more for this event. The energy is so much different. I am not sure if it is a culture thing. Maybe US golfers are just more in tune with normal golf tournament play. Get to the course, be stoic and do your job. It always seems that European players are more inclined to be more out going and competitive in that nature.

I think your first assumption needs examining a bit, as it would be dangerous to rely on it as an explanation. Team Europe was formed in 1979, during that entire time a sum total of just 29 players have been selected from continental Europe. It would be an error to simply look at the populations and draw that comparison. There are whole swathes of Europe where they think golf is Volkswagon model. Of those 29 players, 18 of them have come from just two countries. What America really plays in the rump of the old GB & Ireland team, plus Spain with Sweden. Germany (population 80m) has produced just 2 players. The Molinari family has produced more than Italy (60m) When Victor Dubuisson's name was added to the roster, he became just the thrid Frenchman (60m). 35 years on, you still couldn't form a team of continental Europeans once Spain (40m) and Sweden (11m) were removed

In terms of depth, again the US holds the trump cards. Last time I checked, Europe had 31 players ranked in the top-100. What was interesting though is if you split them by age. The division came at 32. Those over the age of 32 saw the traditional countries dominate, but under the age of 32 you were seeing new countries like Austria and Holland appear. The longer term prognosis for the US can't be good as more countries start playing golf. If Europe does start to bring the population advantage to bear, then the US is going to have to respond with new methods. I'd personally be thinking in asking the players to sign a pledge of allegiance to win the cup back that involves them attending a week team build and discussion type event. The 'training camp' is embedded in American sport and I don't see why golf should be any different. Let's find out which individuals really want this, and which ones just talk the talk to boost their image

Regarding motivation, you're spot on though. Ryder Cup becomes a sports news feature everyday for the 3-4 weeks leading. The national sports radio broadcaster will have a programme with a Ryder Cup feature on it most days, as do the newspapers. I'm occasionally asked why or how Europe gets itself up for this, and there's two answers really

The first relates to America's pre-eminent global status, that's not too difficult to understand, but since there's nothing you can do about it, you have to roll with it

The second relates to Kiawah and Brookline. Both are etched in our golfers DNA and been passed down. Successive captains who were veterans of those two matches have featured prominently since, and they enjoy a very good record. We don't have any qualms about Valhalla, there's a sense that, that match was won fair and square. That isn't always said about the other two though. In many respects the biggest motivators of the European team have been the American supporters, media, players, and PGA (in that order). Personally I think some of that is starting to dilute now. The current crop of players haven't been subjected to the levels of abuse that the teams of the 1990's were, and the two tours are much more integrated now than they were then. Similarly, the door has been kicked down, and Europeans get invites and tour cards more easily than they used to (or so they'd claim). The likes of Rory, Luke and Casey are very Americanised and don't have the level of grievance that some others have in the past

[Kieran123]

Population of countries represented by Europe ( 2014 Ryder Cup ) combined: 270 ( ish ) million

N.I - 1.8 Million

Sweden - 9.5 Million

Spain - 47 Million

England - 53 Million

Germany - 80 Million

Denmark - 5 Million

France - 66 Million

Wales - 3 Million

Scotland - 5 Million

Population of United States: 313 Million

[FarawayFairways]

On this issue of character, would America prefer to see a team of Pat Reed's, Kenny Perry's. Keegan Bradley's and Boo Weekley's playing, to whom it might mean something. We've seen plenty of times before that charcater can outperform ranking in match play. Phillip Price (119) beat Phil Mickelson (2) at the Belfry

[Crim]

On this issue of character, would America prefer to see a team of Pat Reed's, Kenny Perry's. Keegan Bradley's and Boo Weekley's playing, to whom it might mean something. \

100%, absolute YES. Ryder Cup to me is all about competitive fire. USA needs more.

[rehmwa]

Population of countries represented by Europe ( 2014 Ryder Cup ) combined: 270 ( ish ) million

N.I - 1.8 Million

Sweden - 9.5 Million

Spain - 47 Million

England - 53 Million

Germany - 80 Million

Denmark - 5 Million

France - 66 Million

Wales - 3 Million

Scotland - 5 Million

Population of United States: 313 Million

That's a good way to look at it.  But still skewed to compare the entire US to just the countries represented this time.

If you add up the specific Euro countries the 12 guys were from, then a fair comparison would be to just add up the states our 12 guys were from.

[FarawayFairways]

The population excuse is just that, an excuse. If America wants to seek solace in it, then we won't stop them as all it'll do is reinforce the inferiority complex they're developing. At 315m people America has an ample pool to select from. It's not like the old days of GB & Ireland who had about 60m

As I've said a few times, there are only two countries on continental Europe that has supplied players with any sense of frequency - Spain and Sweden. They account for over 60% of the entire total

If you want to run the numbers game though, then look no further than the Presidents Cup and the huge disadvantage America faces trying to take on 5 billion people

There's a few mischievous elements of the UK press suggesting Canada, Mexico and South America could be drafted to help out. The simpel fact is however is that they'd make little difference for much the same reason as there's a very long list of European countries who don't play golf, or where it's played to a minimal level

[iacas]

The population excuse is just that, an excuse. If America wants to seek solace in it, then we won't stop them as all it'll do is reinforce the inferiority complex they're developing. At 315m people America has an ample pool to select from. It's not like the old days of GB & Ireland who had about 60m

No inferiority complex here.

[Crim]

The population excuse is just that, an excuse. If America wants to seek solace in it, then we won't stop them as all it'll do is reinforce the inferiority complex they're developing. At 315m people America has an ample pool to select from. It's not like the old days of GB & Ireland who had about 60m

As I've said a few times, there are only two countries on continental Europe that has supplied players with any sense of frequency - Spain and Sweden. They account for over 60% of the entire total

If you want to run the numbers game though, then look no further than the Presidents Cup and the huge disadvantage America faces trying to take on 5 billion people

There's a few mischievous elements of the UK press suggesting Canada, Mexico and South America could be drafted to help out. The simpel fact is however is that they'd make little difference for much the same reason as there's a very long list of European countries who don't play golf, or where it's played to a minimal level

Great post, the population excuse is completely lame.

[iacas]

Population of countries represented by Europe ( 2014 Ryder Cup ) combined: 270 ( ish ) million

N.I - 1.8 Million

Sweden - 9.5 Million

Spain - 47 Million

England - 53 Million

Germany - 80 Million

Denmark - 5 Million

France - 66 Million

Wales - 3 Million

Scotland - 5 Million

Population of United States: 313 Million

If you were going to consider this a defense of the "population" argument (which I don't think has a lot of merit, perhaps a tiny bit), you can't just count the populations of the countries represented. You may as well count the populations of the U.S. states represented. The European team had all of Europe to pull from:

U.S. Population: 313 million

Europe Population: 743 million

[jgreen85]

Does the President's Cup have the same format as the Ryder Cup? Best ball and alternate shot on days 1/2 and then singles on the 3rd day? If not, I think it behooves the PGA of America to adjust the President's Cup format to match the Ryder Cup.

[mvmac]

Does the President's Cup have the same format as the Ryder Cup? Best ball and alternate shot on days 1/2 and then singles on the 3rd day? If not, I think it behooves the PGA of America to adjust the President's Cup format to match the Ryder Cup.

Yes they play fourball and foursomes. The difference is that all 12 players play each session.

[jgreen85]

Yes they play fourball and foursomes. The difference is that all 12 players play each session.

so that's what Nick Price was complaining about regarding the lack of depth for the internationals, so I recommend they adjust the President's Cup to copy the Ryder Cup exactly. International team, imo, would actually give the US a run for their money in the President's Cup if world # 175 and World # 243 wasn't forced to play for them in every session.

[Shorty]

On this issue of character, would America prefer to see a team of Pat Reed's, Kenny Perry's. Keegan Bradley's and Boo Weekley's playing, to whom it might mean something. We've seen plenty of times before that charcater can outperform ranking in match play. Phillip Price (119) beat Phil Mickelson (2) at the Belfry

[weekend hacker1]

Honestly the Ryder Cup just doesn't mean that much in the states. I think that most of the guys would rather win a PGA tournament in general. I do think they try to win but the interest is short lived. It seems that the Ryder cup is even interesting to the casual golf fans and non golfers over there. I personally am interested in it because I love golf in general. I rooted for the US team but like most of the Euro players too. After it was over I was like eh, time to go play golf.

Until the Ryder Cup has some real esteem in the States, it will just be another event and a "exhibition" of European camaraderie.

Isn't that just another way of saying that you don't care for it much in the States because you can't win it?!

[Valleygolfer]

Isn't that just another way of saying that you don't care for it much in the States because you can't win it?!

I was waiting for this. No it's not. We would be happy winning but it just isn't that big of a deal. Our players look like they are having fun but there is just limited interest. I liked watching the matches but my happiness winning wouldn't change my day after an hour later. The loss was pretty over after I turned the TV off. I am more irritated with people being pissed that figjam spoke his mind. Sorry you can't rub it in... :-\

[Nosevi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by weekend hacker1

Isn't that just another way of saying that you don't care for it much in the States because you can't win it?!

Our players look like they are having fun but there is just limited interest......

Viewing figures disagree; the Ryder Cup is generally watched by more people in the US than the PGA Championship, only the Masters final round and US Open final round had more in 2012 for example. Is it a complete coincidence that both those Majors were won by US players? I wonder......

Lot of soul searching going on here but I think it comes down to 2 things:

1. The European players genuinely care more about their team than themselves and so representing Europe means something to them. Far more than winning money on a regular tour event. I'm not quite as anti Phil as some on here are, even after what he said in the press conference, but someone quoted him saying he wants to be in the Olymics to win a gold medal. Ask any on the European side and the answer will be along the lines of "I want to represent my country" - there's a difference (although I'm sure they'd like a medal too :) )

2. The European players all play on 2 tours and although the European Tour has less glitz and glamour than the PGA Tour, it's played all over the world on massively varying course types. It gives the guys a good grounding in the sport. How many times did our commentators (with Butch Harmon and Jack Nicklaus....) ask why the US players kept insisting on going the aerial route around the greens when the smart play was a chip and run. I just think playing both tours gives them a bit of an advantage.

I could add 3. We're better at golf but that might be pushing my luck :)