"Correct" pace of play

[BuckeyeNut]

Keep pace with the group in front of you......................this is always the case.

If you take an early tee time when the pace of play is brisk, the same standard applies.   Ya' better get the lead out and keep pace!!    If you like to play slow 4hr rounds, don't even think about playing early at my home track or you'll get steamrolled by the regs......we don't like waiting for slow folk.

[GregoryShell]

Playing ability should rarely have any effect on pace of play, personally I have seen 18 handicap players move along faster than scratch and plus index players, wasting time is the biggest cause of slow play not the actual playing golf. If people would simply pay attention to what they are doing and make keeping the round moving in a forward direction a priority slow play would never exist, for some people if you don't purposely take your time then you can't enjoy yourself, I really believe that's the mindset of a lot of people and slow play is going to forever be a problem until courses get aggressive in preventing it.

Playing ability will always have an effect on the pace you can maintain comfortably when you aren't talking about lollygaggers and time wastisiers. My example was regarding for instance a group of beginners who rarely break a 100, often hit off fairway in opposite directions from their cart mates, then have to pitch, followed by a chip, followed by 2 or 3 putts. They will always get left behind with an ever increasing gap each hole by the group of 4 ahead of them whose highest handicap is a 10 as long as reasonable etiquette is followed or unless there is a slower group in front of them. Expecting the first group to keep up with the much more advanced group at all times and rushing them when they don't is not fair and should not be done. As long as the beginners don't waste time they should not have a problem finishing at a reasonable pace. But if the group behind them is always right at their heels telling them need to hurry when they are already using proper golf etiquette, that is wrong and should aggressively discouraged. I can remember picking up a couple balls over the years that came to rest close to me on the fairway or anywhere else after being hit by the group behind me. I wouldn't do it the first time or maybe even the second time but if you are hitting shots that regularly come that close because you can't wait a couple more minutes to let me or anyone else hit their shot and get out of the way, you are going to lose that ball. If you can't let a group play through for whatever reason and they are still behaving like that it does not set a good example for beginners and is a discouragement that can keep them from becoming intermediate and then advanced level players. I know that kind of harassment has caused some beginners to lose interest, I have seen it. You should not harass student drivers for being a little slower then you and you certainly shouldn't harass beginner golfers. The advanced golfers can finish quicker and should be expected to if they are not having to wait on another group in front of them. Lollygaggers can really be frustrating and I wish they didn't exist, but you shouldn't let them mess up your round because it will take you 30 minutes longer to finish. A group of 4 beginners that averages 6 per hole will need more time to finish than the same size group with an average handicap of 10 when they are all using proper golf etiquette. There is a considerable difference between how long it will take at 460 strokes versus 370 or so, all thing considered. That is a fact.

[flopster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregoryShell

As long as the beginners don't waste time they should not have a problem finishing at a reasonable pace.

Bingo, but what is the one thing beginners do while on the golf course?

Waste time, here's the list:

Practice swings, how many times have seen a stone cold beginner out in front of us less than 200 yards take 5 practice swings and then duff it 20 yards put the club back in the bag get back in the cart ride up to the ball and do the same thing all over.

Mulligans, People who don't understand the etiquette of pace of play are notorious for wanting to try a shot over when the first one fails.

Watching other players, I see this constantly you have one guy getting ready to hit with 3 people in 2 carts watching him rather than going over to their shots and get ready, it seems they all want to have the fun of watching each other struggle at others expense.

Searching for lost balls, the rules are 5 minutes but for a casual round 2 minutes is plenty but people who have not taken the time to learn this will take whatever time to find it.

Socializing, players who are new usually don't pay attention to the flow of the game and when is the right time and wrong time to cut it up on the course, I have recently witnessed a group spend over 10 minutes on a tee box because they wanted to talk about other things unrelated to golf and in the meantime the gap in front increases while the group following approaches.

Will not pick up when a score is already ridiculous, 8 strokes is plenty even on a par 5 in fact ESC says 8 is your maximum score for someone between the index of 19-27 so why not pick up the ball and move on and put down your 8.

When you add all these things up it turns out the actual act of golfing (hitting the ball) takes the least amount of time, I'm only listing what I personally observe when I marshal on the weekends.

Quote:

There is a considerable difference between how long it will take at 460 strokes versus 370 or so, all thing considered. That is a fact.

Really? I just listed 6 reasons as to why newbs are usually slower, if they were to not do those things listed above I can guarantee they will finish very close if not on the heels of a group of more talented golfers, and let me stop and back up a little it's not just new players I see doing some of these things it's also better players too but it turns out being a bigger issue for the beginner.

But if the group behind them is always right at their heels telling them need to hurry when they are already using proper golf etiquette, that is wrong and should aggressively discouraged.

Because they are playing at 4 1/2 hours pace the group behind needs to just back off and let the people in front enjoy their day? First if they are using good etiquette then they will probably not get pushed and if they are then the good etiquette they practice will compel them to allow this faster group to play through and enjoy the rest of their round at a more comfortable pace.

[mcanadiens]

Will not pick up when a score is already ridiculous, 8 strokes is plenty even on a par 5 in fact ESC says 8 is your maximum score for someone between the index of 19-27 so why not pick up the ball and move on and put down your 8.

Most of your points are good ones, but this one struck me funny.

In my earlier days as a golfer, putting down an eight would have in no way reflected reality on some holes. I understand that you are referring to maximum scores for handicaps, but this practice would have made the idea of keeping score a farce. Hell, I'm pretty sure I carded a nine or two this year. There have been times when I have picked it up. I see it as a massive failure each time.

If you force people to forfeit as soon as they hit triple, I think you'd have even fewer beginners stick with it.

[flopster]

Most of your points are good ones, but this one struck me funny.

In my earlier days as a golfer, putting down an eight would have in no way reflected reality on some holes. I understand that you are referring to maximum scores for handicaps, but this practice would have made the idea of keeping score a farce. Hell, I'm pretty sure I carded a nine or two this year. There have been times when I have picked it up. I see it as a massive failure each time.

If you force people to forfeit as soon as they hit triple, I think you'd have even fewer beginners stick with it.

I understand and see your point, maybe this is not the best solution for all players starting out but I know some would just assume pick up when things get crazy, played with one group at work and one guy took a 13 on one hole while others would just pick up at 8 or 10 at the most, really 8 is just an arbitrary number and I could see 10 even being a max score for a par 5 or maybe a 4.I think when a player sees or feels that they are starting to hold things up should be the time to just pick up and move on.

[Strandly]

13 minutes per hole, 3.9 hours total.

And that's generous imo.

[colin007]

13 minutes per hole, 3.9 hours total.

And that's generous imo.

yes it is.  without a doubt.

[flopster]

yes it is.  without a doubt.

Agreed 4 hours maximum is plenty of time, now write your congressman and lets get this rolling.

[Lihu]

Agreed 4 hours maximum is plenty of time, now write your congressman and lets get this rolling.

Okay, I'll go along with these last 4 posts, since I was a victim of slow play this morning.

I just walked around them, and said good morning to them. Funny thing is they started to move much faster after I passed them.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

Most of your points are good ones, but this one struck me funny. In my earlier days as a golfer, putting down an eight would have in no way reflected reality on some holes. I understand that you are referring to maximum scores for handicaps, but this practice would have made the idea of keeping score a farce. Hell, I'm pretty sure I carded a nine or two this year. There have been times when I have picked it up. I see it as a massive failure each time.  If you force people to forfeit as soon as they hit triple, I think you'd have even fewer beginners stick with it.

It's called equitable stroke control. Why would somebody want to card a 10+ on a hole? What makes that more enjoyable? If someone keeping a legit handicap is doing it what reason other than selfishness does a newer golfer need to take that many strokes on a hole?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcanadiens

Most of your points are good ones, but this one struck me funny.

In my earlier days as a golfer, putting down an eight would have in no way reflected reality on some holes. I understand that you are referring to maximum scores for handicaps, but this practice would have made the idea of keeping score a farce. Hell, I'm pretty sure I carded a nine or two this year. There have been times when I have picked it up. I see it as a massive failure each time.

If you force people to forfeit as soon as they hit triple, I think you'd have even fewer beginners stick with it.

It's called equitable stroke control. Why would somebody want to card a 10+ on a hole? What makes that more enjoyable? If someone keeping a legit handicap is doing it what reason other than selfishness does a newer golfer need to take that many strokes on a hole?

If the guy your'e playing a match against shoots an 11?  There are legitimate reasons.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

If the guy your'e playing a match against shoots an 11?  There are legitimate reasons.

I don't understand. Are you playing a stroke play match or just playing against your group in a normal round? If it's the latter I guess you are saying it's cool for your group to hold up another group to score an 11 as long as you aren't held up. Or maybe it's a quick 11? I carded a 10 once in a tourney because I couldn't pick up but I thought the post I quoted as well as this thread was mainly about normal rounds. The post I quoted even mentioned max score driving new people away.

[MS256]

I don't understand. Are you playing a stroke play match or just playing against your group in a normal round? If it's the latter I guess you are saying it's cool for your group to hold up another group to score an 11 as long as you aren't held up. Or maybe it's a quick 11?

I carded a 10 once in a tourney because I couldn't pick up but I thought the post I quoted as well as this thread was mainly about normal rounds. The post I quoted even mentioned max score driving new people away.

I'm pretty sure I would have quit golf the first year I played it if it wasn't for the fact that almost every round I played was match play.

I could hang with the guys I was playing against (who were quite a bit better than I was) on some of the holes and put the ball in my pocket on the other holes. Neither they, nor I, had any desire to watch me try to finish out my blow up holes.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

If the guy your'e playing a match against shoots an 11?  There are legitimate reasons.

I don't understand. Are you playing a stroke play match or just playing against your group in a normal round? If it's the latter I guess you are saying it's cool for your group to hold up another group to score an 11 as long as you aren't held up. Or maybe it's a quick 11?

I carded a 10 once in a tourney because I couldn't pick up but I thought the post I quoted as well as this thread was mainly about normal rounds. The post I quoted even mentioned max score driving new people away.

No, I'm talking about playing a match (that's match play, not stroke - you still have to count the strokes for each hole even if you don't worry about a total)... or maybe skins.  You're lying 9 and your opponent is lying 10 and the hole is a 6 hole carry over.  Damn straight I'm going to putt that ball.  If it's only the two of you on a typical busy day, you aren't taking any longer than a foursome making bogies.

If anyone has ever read any of my posts here they should know that I'm death on slow play.  Just read what I put in my sig.  But there are times when you have to suck it up and finish the hole no matter how bad it seems.  I played in a stroke tournament back in the 90's, carrying a 10 handicap and on successive holes I took a 12 and a 10.  It sucked, but the hole had to be finished.

[mcanadiens]

I'm guessing I'm a lot closer to my beginning years that you fellas are.

My point here was that for me, failure to actually sink 18 balls into 18 holes is a massive disappointment. Putting a number on a score card that doesn't match the actual number of strokes, is inconceivable to me. When I've picked up a ball (and it has happened too many times), it's like a forfeit. These are times when I seriously considered quitting the game. Some may say that I overemphasize the result. To me, not having a real result makes the whole thing pointless.

For what it's worth, the times I have picked up are generally when I am concerned about holding people up. My guys and I do very well with our pace of play. Picking up is a last resort for when my crummy playing is so much that ready golf can't overcome.

[Fourputt]

I'm guessing I'm a lot closer to my beginning years that you fellas are.

My point here was that for me, failure to actually sink 18 balls into 18 holes is a massive disappointment. Putting a number on a score card that doesn't match the actual number of strokes, is inconceivable to me. When I've picked up a ball (and it has happened too many times), it's like a forfeit. These are times when I seriously considered quitting the game. Some may say that I overemphasize the result. To me, not having a real result makes the whole thing pointless.

For what it's worth, the times I have picked up are generally when I am concerned about holding people up. My guys and I do very well with our pace of play. Picking up is a last resort for when my crummy playing is so much that ready golf can't overcome.

This is how I look at it too.  As long as nobody is being held up, then I want the ball in the hole.  While I admit that I am rarely outside of triple bogey numbers, on those few occasions I'm still going to play out the hole.

[No Mulligans]

+1 To me getting the ball in the hole is an awfully important element of the game.

[flopster]

+1

To me getting the ball in the hole is an awfully important element of the game.