"Correct" pace of play

[flopster]

I see the misconception of walking vs riding happens even here, a good portion here know what's going on but there are some who are still of the belief riding is faster. I'll say this I guarantee 4 walking players will easily be done quicker than 4 players in 2 carts, I have seen this countless times

Maybe you're right, but I'd like to see a walking group make it around my local Bethpage courses in 3:00 without breaking a sweat, sorry, but I doubt it can be done without doing one thing- rushing.

And I don't want a "sense of urgency" on the golf course, I have that at work, I'm there to relax and play golf, and if that means some people behind me quit the game, I say good, less people to wait for next time, I really think this kind of threatening stance of "play faster or I'm going to quit" is super lame.

I play ready golf, I'm ready to hit my ball when it's my turn, I don't stop for lunch, I don't take more than 1-2 practice swings, I walk fast, I keep moving, I don't "Pro" putts, I don't even take more than two putts, I pick up when it's a bad hole... if that's not good enough to play the game then the expectations are unreasonable.

Everything you said sounds perfectly fine, one of the main culprits in slow play is the 2 person golf cart, not the cart itself as much as peoples misunderstanding on how to use it to their advantage, single rider carts would probably fix some of the issue but if people simply knew how to use a golf cart properly pace of play would be lightening fast. People use it too much as a crutch than a proximity tool, all it's meant to do is carry two golfers and their bags to a spot where they have the least amount of steps each to take to the next shot, basically it's meant to cover ground more faster so golfers get to their ball quicker. I see it used as a lawn chair for 3 other people to watch someone take a whack at a ball far too often. I usually if driving will drop my partner (sometimes with bag) at his tee shot and then go to my ball and then return to pick him up, or if we are less than 100' from each other just park the thing an equal distance from each ball, 50' is a very short walk. It's all about flow and making moves that keep you in a forward direction.

[cubdog]

Not everyone plays in a two in a cart with no-one in front of them you know.

I've been playing golf for 54 years. Walking, riding, in cities and towns, weekdays and weekends. Rarely do I play in over 4:15. And if I had to endure those kind of rounds I would indeed quit playing.

FWIW, I play around 60-75 rounds a year. I'm not saying slow play isn't a problem but I avoid golfing when slow play is inevitable. I do play faster than normal. On my own, 18 holes with a cart takes me no more than 2 hours and I do not feel rushed. In fact I have to slow myself down. This is playing from around 6100 yards.

My guess is most guys my age, 62, find rounds in excess of 4 hours to be unbearable. I don't remember slow play being much of a problem 25 years ago. Whatever the cause it's killing the sport.

cubdog

[Golfingdad]

I don't remember slow play being much of a problem 25 years ago. Whatever the cause it's killing the sport.

I'm pretty sure it was Yogi Berra who said "Nobody goes there anymore ... it's too crowded."

[No Mulligans]

I'm pretty sure it was Yogi Berra who said "Nobody goes there anymore ... it's too crowded."

That is a good description for Torrey Pines.

A round under 4 hours, "forget about it".

[Golfingdad]

That is a good description for Torrey Pines.

A round under 4 hours, "forget about it".

Pretty much any decently popular Southern California course as well.

But I was mostly pointing out that he said golf rounds have gotten longer over the course of the last 54 years and that is what's killing the sport.  I believe a good part of what has caused them to get longer is because there are more players.  So maybe we're taking a step back right now, but it's after 50 steps forward in the last 54 years.

[billm408]

Typically around here, pace of play is defined as maintaining position two shots behind the group in front of you. Not two shots ahead of the group behind you. The course I've been playing lately will send mssgs to your cart's GPS if you fall a hole behind. On a weekend, if I tee off before 8:00, I'm finished in 4 hours. After 9:00 and it can jump to a 5+ hour round.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I see the misconception of walking vs riding happens even here, a good portion here know what's going on but there are some who are still of the belief riding is faster. I'll say this I guarantee 4 walking players will easily be done quicker than 4 players in 2 carts, I have seen this countless times Everything you said sounds perfectly fine, one of the main culprits in slow play is the 2 person golf cart, not the cart itself as much as peoples misunderstanding on how to use it to their advantage, single rider carts would probably fix some of the issue but if people simply knew how to use a golf cart properly pace of play would be lightening fast. People use it too much as a crutch than a proximity tool, all it's meant to do is carry two golfers and their bags to a spot where they have the least amount of steps each to take to the next shot, basically it's meant to cover ground more faster so golfers get to their ball quicker. I see it used as a lawn chair for 3 other people to watch someone take a whack at a ball far too often. I usually if driving will drop my partner (sometimes with bag) at his tee shot and then go to my ball and then return to pick him up, or if we are less than 100' from each other just park the thing an equal distance from each ball, 50' is a very short walk. It's all about flow and making moves that keep you in a forward direction.

I am going to have to show this to my cart partner. He always drives and I am usually 40 to 50 yards longer than my group off the tee and the cart is usually parked by his ball while I walk to my ball to prep for my shot. Who knew the cart could be parked in the middle.

[fozgolf]

Typically around here, pace of play is defined as maintaining position two shots behind the group in front of you. Not two shots ahead of the group behind you.

The course I've been playing lately will send mssgs to your cart's GPS if you fall a hole behind. On a weekend, if I tee off before 8:00, I'm finished in 4 hours. After 9:00 and it can jump to a 5+ hour round.

Hmmm.. Using GPS technology to enforce pace of play sounds interesting. Then the onus wouldn't been on a Marshall or ranger to make the tough decision.  Once you drive off from the 1st tee box the GPS will know and start the clock.  If you don't show up at a tee within a specified time it let's you know with maybe a yellow warning or something. Fall behind too far and maybe you go into the red and the cart shuts down not letting you move anymore effectively forcing/shaming you into letting groups behind play through.  This would be similar to being put on the clock on the PGA Tour.  Obviously, there would be arguments that it doesn't allow for exceptions but if a course is booked solid there isn't really room for exceptions... the train has to keep moving.

[CR McDivot]

I voted to keep up, the correct position is directly behind the group in front!

However, the time allotted and listed on the scorecard (you do DO this don't you Course Managers) is the official max time. If my group falls behind a fast group, but not so far as to have a clear hole or to be more than 5 minutes off pace, I do not expect more than a smile and a gentle reminder from the ranger. Most of these volunteers I have had contact with are good folks trying to enhance the round for all players on the course.

I try to encourage all in my group to cooperate and play "Ready Golf".

Looking for balls lost in areas that really should be readily visible (first cut rough), and the truly foolish concept that medal or stroke play is the ONLY way to play the game, seem to be the primary reason for slow play. Managing the first cut, and encouraging Match or Stableford play would seem to me to help.

[billm408]

The GPS notification is sent to your cart screen as a reminder- not meant to be punitive. I'm sure sending a Marshall out would be next step. Could even be an automated mssg based on your start time. Shutting down the cart would create chaos. My group (both carts) got the mssg on Sunday. A first for me but we picked it up. One of our group was struggling. It was effective.

[Fourputt]

I see the misconception of walking vs riding happens even here, a good portion here know what's going on but there are some who are still of the belief riding is faster. I'll say this I guarantee 4 walking players will easily be done quicker than 4 players in 2 carts, I have seen this countless times

You would be wrong if those riders have a clue.  I guarantee that me and my buddies would beat your walkers, whether racing or just playing.  That 5-10 MPH advantage in traveling speed is all it would take.  A lot depends on the type of course, but on my home course you wouldn't have a chance.  Walkers don't get enough of an advantage around the green to make up for the speed difference between walking and driving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Mulligans

That is a good description for Torrey Pines.

A round under 4 hours, "forget about it".

Pretty much any decently popular Southern California course as well.

But I was mostly pointing out that he said golf rounds have gotten longer over the course of the last 54 years and that is what's killing the sport.  I believe a good part of what has caused them to get longer is because there are more players.  So maybe we're taking a step back right now, but it's after 50 steps forward in the last 54 years.

No it's primarily because players have come to accept slow play as the norm.  Most of the guys I play with have played with the same philosophy for 20 or more years, but it's the newcomers to the sport who seem to find the 4 hour round incomprehensible.  They have grown up with the 4:30 or longer round and refuse to accept anything faster as "normal".

[Slice of Life]

I see the misconception of walking vs riding happens even here, a good portion here know what's going on but there are some who are still of the belief riding is faster. I'll say this I guarantee 4 walking players will easily be done quicker than 4 players in 2 carts, I have seen this countless times

Simply not true. Sure, if all 4 drive to every ball and wait around...but for anyone who knows better...that isn't the case. Cart golf when employed properly is undoubtedly faster than walking. Even with a foursome in two carts.

[fozgolf]

The GPS notification is sent to your cart screen as a reminder- not meant to be punitive. I'm sure sending a Marshall out would be next step. Could even be an automated mssg based on your start time. Shutting down the cart would create chaos.

My group (both carts) got the mssg on Sunday. A first for me but we picked it up. One of our group was struggling. It was effective.

I've played rounds with a cart that had a timer that displayed if you were on pace on not and I found it effective as well.  I honestly have no idea if courses that have these have pace of play issues or not. It would be interesting to find out but my inclination is that there are always going to be those people who think the rules/guidelines don't apply to them. I agree shutting carts down would be extreme and create a lot of hassle but there could be some middle ground.

[flopster]

Simply not true. Sure, if all 4 drive to every ball and wait around...but for anyone who knows better...that isn't the case. Cart golf when employed properly is undoubtedly faster than walking. Even with a foursome in two carts.

You and @Fourputt make the same comment but with the same condition, I agree also but for some reason golf courses are overrun with people with no clue. I watch these circuses every weekend and it's the same stupid crap.

[Dave2512]

Slow is slow cart or not. A slow, ignorant golfer won't be faster taking the cart away. Just slower getting to the ball before they start the crazy stuff.

[flopster]

I voted to keep up, the correct position is directly behind the group in front!

However, the time allotted and listed on the scorecard (you do DO this don't you Course Managers) is the official max time. If my group falls behind a fast group, but not so far as to have a clear hole or to be more than 5 minutes off pace, I do not expect more than a smile and a gentle reminder from the ranger. Most of these volunteers I have had contact with are good folks trying to enhance the round for all players on the course.

I try to encourage all in my group to cooperate and play "Ready Golf".

Looking for balls lost in areas that really should be readily visible (first cut rough), and the truly foolish concept that medal or stroke play is the ONLY way to play the game, seem to be the primary reason for slow play. Managing the first cut, and encouraging Match or Stableford play would seem to me to help.

I personally will say nothing until there is a full hole gap, usually will forecaddie if applicable along with raking traps and whatever else may help the group make up the time, found most people respond fairly well when you are actually giving a hand rather than just bark at them.

[Slice of Life]

You and @Fourputt make the same comment but with the same condition, I agree also but for some reason golf courses are overrun with people with no clue. I watch these circuses every weekend and it's the same stupid crap.

Right, but at the same time, I see foursomes of walkers who all walk to each other's balls and wait around, so it goes both ways.

Either way, I think we both agree that it's not the walking, or cart that makes a group slow.

[saevel25]

Right, but at the same time, I see foursomes of walkers who all walk to each other's balls and wait around, so it goes both ways.

Either way, I think we both agree that it's not the walking, or cart that makes a group slow.

Exactly, thought I do think that people are more likely to jumble together with carts.