OZ Open rules dispute

[joekelly]

JSpieth was told by the crowd that a Marshall had mistakenly stepped on Spieth's ball near the green and now it lay in a sunken depression.  The Marshall was not identified nor did he come forward to admit stepping on it.

No relief was offered for Spieth and he was annoyed and lost a stroke due to poor lie and anger management.

Seems to me that in equity, since spectators can claim rules violations from TV screens hours after the fact, that the Rules Masters should have heard the spectators  and  returned the ball to the original lie.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/golf/jordan-spieth-angry-after-marshal-misstep-at-australian-open-20141128-11w640.html

[wadesworld]

I would think they should:

1)  Consult TV coverage.  If the lie of the ball before being stepped on can be observed, use it to allow Speith to recreate the lie.

2) If TV coverage is not available, in equity, give Speith the option of a drop.

[Ernest Jones]

I would think they should:

1)  Consult TV coverage.  If the lie of the ball before being stepped on can be observed, use it to allow Speith to recreate the lie.

2) If TV coverage is not available, in equity, give Speith the option of a drop.

Obviously too late for that, but I imagine that the Marshall would be an outside agency?

Marshall should be disciplined in some fashion, if he's a volunteer he should be blacklisted. Anyone can make a mistake and surely he didn't step on the ball intentionally* but not owning up to it is not acceptable.

*then again, if he was an Aussie maybe he didn't like a brash, young Yank taking the lead.

[ghalfaire]

Marshall should be disciplined in some fashion, if he's a volunteer he should be blacklisted. Anyone can make a mistake and surely he didn't step on the ball intentionally* but not owning up to it is not acceptable.

*then again, if he was an Aussie maybe he didn't like a brash, young Yank taking the lead.

I would have to admit that it seems unlikely the Marshall didn't know he stepped on the ball.  But not impossible as sometimes when you have your mind on other things you might not notice stepping on a ball, especially if the ground is damp and the ball just gets pressed down.

As a second comment I'd have to believe you can tell if a ball has been pressed down as opposed to being in a natural depression.  This regardless of the Marshall's action or inaction as the case might be.  How to recreate the original lie I don't know.

[David in FL]

Reading the link, it appears that he was allowed to properly drop from the embedded lie. Hit a poor chip and missed the putt. Where's the controversy/dispute?

[billchao]

Reading the link, it appears that he was allowed to properly drop from the embedded lie. Hit a poor chip and missed the putt. Where's the controversy/dispute?

I don't see it, either. Spieth seems like he's complaining because he dropped it into a depression that cause him to make a bad shot, but he never saw the original lie, right? How can he assume he went from a "chance to make two to making a four?" I like the guy, but his attitude leaves a lot to be desired at times. He kinda reminds me of Bubba (in the bad way).

[iacas]

No relief was offered for Spieth…

That doesn't appear to be true.

Seems to me that in equity, since spectators can claim rules violations from TV screens hours after the fact, that the Rules Masters should have heard the spectators  and  returned the ball to the original lie.

If you don't know what the exact lie was like or it cannot be recreated, you refer to 20-3b and c:

18-1 . By Outside Agency

If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency , there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced.

Note: It is a question of fact whether a ball has been moved by an outside agency . In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that an outside agency has moved the ball. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed under Rule 27-1 .

…

Note 2: If the original lie of a ball to be placed or replaced has been altered, see Rule 20-3b .

Note 3: If it is impossible to determine the spot on which a ball is to be placed or replaced, see Rule 20-3c .

[Ernest Jones]

Reading the link, it appears that he was allowed to properly drop from the embedded lie. Hit a poor chip and missed the putt.

Where's the controversy/dispute?

I don't see a controversy in how Speith's situation was handled, but I do see a controversy in how the Marshall performed. Maybe he didn't notice stepping on the ball but it seems that the gallery noticed and I find it hard to believe that nobody brought it to the Marshall's attention.

But whatever...Go RORY!

[Rulesman]

"Spieth dropped into a depression, left the chip short and missed his metre-long par putt before dispatching the ball into the lake in frustration".

"Each time (it has happened this year), it has cost me a shot ... all three times."

Perhaps he ought to practice dropping.

[Fourputt]

He makes bogey because he got so upset that he blew a 3 foot par putt?  He needs some time with a sports psychologist to get his head screwed on right.  I do agree that the marshal who wouldn't come forward needs to be disciplined.

I worked as a hole marshal for 4 years on a PGA tour stop, and the one thing you don't do is allow yourself to become part of the game.  You don't even talk to the player unless he initiates the conversation.  You spot balls, help search when necessary, but your primary function is just crowd control, and unless a ball in flight hits you, you never do anything that would affect the play of the game.

[turtleback]

"Spieth dropped into a depression, left the chip short and missed his metre-long par putt before dispatching the ball into the lake in frustration".

"Each time (it has happened this year), it has cost me a shot ... all three times."

Perhaps he ought to practice dropping.

I wondered about that when I read it.  But I wonder if the author meant that he, Spieth, personally dropped into a depression, i.e., got bummed out, not that he got a drop from the lie that went into a depression?

Here are 2 other accounts neither of which mentions any drop but both of which mention a drop in his mood ( flustered , in one and loss focus , in the other).  I suspect that first article was worded astoundingly bad and he did not actually get relief.

http://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2014/11/28/marshal-costs-jordan-spieth-bad-lie-australian-open-8871/

http://www1.skysports.com/golf/news/12040/9583208/australian-open-jordan-spieth-furious-after-marshals-mishap-in-sydney

The problem seems to be that he got flustered.  If he kept his cool he would have called for a rules official who would have heard what the spectators had to say and given him the drop.  His irritation should be directed at himself more than the Marshall, as he had a remedy but was too flustered to avail himself of it.

[Shorty]

I wondered about that when I read it.  But I wonder if the author meant that he, Spieth, personally dropped into a depression, i.e., got bummed out, not that he got a drop from the lie that went into a depression?

Spieth was forced to drop it nearest to where the ball originally landed, however it wasn't of much benefit.

"When I dropped it, it rolled down into a bare hole spot where I couldn't chip it on to the green because I had to deal with the fringe in front of the green, " Spieth said.

[iacas]

Spieth was forced to drop it nearest to where the ball originally landed, however it wasn't of much benefit.

"When I dropped it, it rolled down into a bare hole spot where I couldn't chip it on to the green because I had to deal with the fringe in front of the green," Spieth said.

The Rules of Golf seem to have been followed.

[turtleback]

Spieth was forced to drop it nearest to where the ball originally landed, however it wasn't of much benefit.

"When I dropped it, it rolled down into a bare hole spot where I couldn't chip it on to the green because I had to deal with the fringe in front of the green," Spieth said.

If he got a drop then case closed, I agree.

[Rulesman]

If he got a drop then case closed, I agree.

More accurately

As he got a drop then case closed.