What's a 'hook lie'?

[joekelly]

Had the ball quite above my feet, actually it was on the slope of a grassy mound and i was on the fairway. Played the shot with 23* hybrid and the ball shot left into, yes, the pond at least 70 yards left of the green, my target.

Fellow competitor said 'that was to be expected as it was a hook lie'. I thought i made a decent swing but results say otherwise.  So why did the ball go so dramatically left off the mound?

And is the opposite also true?  If the  ball is far below my feet will it shoot out to the right?

[14ledo81]

You are correct.  Ball above feet is a hook lie, below feet is a slice lie.

It was explained to me at some point, and it made sense.  Someone else will have to here though.  I can't remember....

[saevel25]

Fellow competitor said 'that was to be expected as it was a hook lie'. I thought i made a decent swing but results say otherwise.  So why did the ball go so dramatically left off the mound?

And is the opposite also true?  If the  ball is far below my feet will it shoot out to the right?

Though it depends on the golfer. Some golfers try to over compensate and end up hitting a hook off a slice lie.

Yes, if the lie angle changes dramatically then it can cause the ball to start left or right and curve in that direction.

[colin007]

the hook lie - for one, it changes the angle at which the ball comes off the face relative to "level" ground.  it also results in a tendency for the golfer to come into the ball on a more outward path.  so you have a ball that is starting more left than normal, with an outward path, leads to the hook.

my issue is hitting pull hooks from a slice lie.

[billchao]

the hook lie - for one, it changes the angle at which the ball comes off the face relative to "level" ground.

For those who are less mathematically inclined :whistle:, it's basically this. Loft on a club on level ground causes the ball to launch vertically, but once you start tilting the clubhead, it starts to launch it laterally, as well. When the toe is up it will tend to launch left and when down, right. A good way to visualize it is by taping a tee to the clubface. Of course, the individual golfer's tendencies and compensations come into play, too...

[Golfingdad]

For those who are less mathematically inclined , it's basically this. Loft on a club on level ground causes the ball to launch vertically, but once you start tilting the clubhead, it starts to launch it laterally, as well.

When the toe is up it will tend to launch left and when down, right. A good way to visualize it is by taping a tee to the clubface.

Of course, the individual golfer's tendencies and compensations come into play, too...

Which is why I believe it's a misnomer.  To be more accurate, they should probably just call them "pull" lies and "push" lies.

[billchao]

Which is why I believe it's a misnomer.  To be more accurate, they should probably just call them "pull" lies and "push" lies.

Yea, I generally just refer to it as the ball below or above my feet.

[mvmac]

@joekelly , ball above your feet will point the loft of the clubface to the left. The more severe the slope and the greater the loft on the clubface, the more the face will point to the left.

[DrvFrShow]

the hook lie - for one, it changes the angle at which the ball comes off the face relative to "level" ground.  it also results in a tendency for the golfer to come into the ball on a more outward path.  so you have a ball that is starting more left than normal, with an outward path, leads to the hook.

my issue is hitting pull hooks from a slice lie.

I can do this, too! And have hit slices from the "hook lie".

[iacas]

Which is why I believe it's a misnomer.  To be more accurate, they should probably just call them "pull" lies and "push" lies.

But… the spin axis tilts because of the clubface normal (i.e. where the clubface is pointing). A "hook lie" (ball above feet) DOES tilt the spin axis more toward a hook AND start the ball left more. Both. :)

[Golfingdad]

But… the spin axis tilts because of the clubface normal (i.e. where the clubface is pointing). A "hook lie" (ball above feet) DOES tilt the spin axis more toward a hook AND start the ball left more. Both. :)

Interesting.

Because of the effect of gravity or because we're changing something about our setup or swing slightly?

[iacas]

Interesting.

Because of the effect of gravity or because we're changing something about our setup or swing slightly?

Huh?

The face is pointing well left of the path on a hook lie. The spin axis changes.

[Golfingdad]

Huh?

The face is pointing well left of the path on a hook lie. The spin axis changes.

Why doesn't the path also go left?  Are you talking only about a lie where you are standing on flat ground and the ball is up above your feet?  If you're on the side of a hill isn't EVERYTHING rotated equally that direction?

[iacas]

Why doesn't the path also go left?  Are you talking only about a lie where you are standing on flat ground and the ball is up above your feet?  If you're on the side of a hill isn't EVERYTHING rotated equally that direction?

You get this now right?

The path is close to horizontal. It's close to 0 in horizontal and vertical.

If red is the face and black is the path, a sidehill lie creates either:

\ | or | /

[vangator]

If you are in the Southern Hemisphere, a ball above your feet will spin in the opposite direction causing a fade.

[Gunther]

If you are in the Southern Hemisphere, a ball above your feet will spin in the opposite direction causing a fade.

Wait...what?

[Golfingdad]

You get this now right?

The path is close to horizontal. It's close to 0 in horizontal and vertical.

If red is the face and black is the path, a sidehill lie creates either:

\|   or    |/

Sure.  (I guess I'm just a little confused as to why the path isn't also along the red line because that's what I'm picturing when I'm fully on the side of a hill)

[colin007]

Sure.  (I guess I'm just a little confused as to why the path isn't also along the red line because that's what I'm picturing when I'm fully on the side of a hill)

the black line is your target line.  wouldnt your feet, hips, shoulders be pretty much lined up on that same direction as the target?  ball starts left and curves away from the path.