Playing Tees Based on Driver Distance x 28

[JonMA1]

Golf is what you make it.

Like getting your a$$ kicked, play longer.

Sadly, these occur regardless of the length of the course. As hard as it may be to believe this, it isn't the lack of distance that causes my high scores, it's my inability to keep the ball in play.

Play the length you'll have the most fun with.  On a course with a higher slope, a 15 cap or higher should pay most attention to the slope rating and bring that down to his normal difficulty, then see how that looks for length.  A 6300 yard course with a 120 slope is a much easier course to navigate than the same length with a 134 slope.  If you are usually 250 yards and straight, then the 134 slope might be doable, but if you are 250 and wild, then that 134 slope course is going to have your lunch from those tees.  Since I"m not out there to beat my brains in, I look at both numbers and try to pick length that I can have some fun with, especially on a course that I don't know well.

This may be off-topic, but I find course ratings to be inconsistent - probably due to my lack of experience. I do agree however that without anything else to go by, the rating and slope should be a determining factor on which tees to play.

If we're able to remove ego from the equation (not that easy to do), it makes the decision much easier regardless of whether that is below, at, or beyond the distance we "should" be playing.

[Lihu]

No - we only have back tees is what I'm saying.

This is the yawn of a course I'm describing, BTW.

The par 4 on this course, below, which is ranked in the top 500 in the world ,would not be rated by me in the top 5 holes on the course.

This course is gorgeous! When are you inviting me over?

It reminds me a little bit of some local course we have around here as well, but with much more beautiful nature around. . .

[DrvFrShow]

Average drives.... does this mean with your driver or is this including those 3W and 3i tee shots like they do with the pros for your average drive distance?

If not hit a bucket of 50 balls with your driver using a GC2. Then remove your monster hits, your duffs, your slices, your duck hooks, Get your average from those remaining.

But I don't want to torture myself from 6300 yds. The longest course I'll ever play is 5800. Tournaments? I added up the costs and I can't afford to enter the state championships - $175 plus three days hotel + food + travel. Club and local tournaments, yes. So why torture myself playing 6300 yds when I'll never play it?

I'm retired.

[Lihu]

[INDENT][/INDENT][quote name="DrvFrShow" url="/t/81028/should-you-play-tees-courses-based-soley-from-driver-times-28/36#post_1120787"]Average drives.... does this mean with your driver or is this including those 3W and 3i tee shots like they do with the pros for your average drive distance? If not hit a bucket of 50 balls with your driver using a GC2. Then remove your monster hits, your duffs, your slices, your duck hooks, Get your average from those remaining. But I don't want to torture myself from 6300 yds. The longest course I'll ever play is 5800. Tournaments? I added up the costs and I can't afford to enter the state championships - $175 plus three days hotel + food + travel. Club and local tournaments, yes. So why torture myself playing 6300 yds when I'll never play it? I'm retired. [/quote] The article stated driver, but usually only the longer holes are the ones that require a driver. I suppose if there is a 330 yard par 4 that doglegs sharply with OB on both sides, I would guess that you would have a commensurate distance with your other clubs. For me, it would be something like a 7i off the tee and a 7i to reach the green or something like that depending upon the type of mishit I get from off the tee. However, I would guess that it's the longer courses that offer this kind of difficult situation on shorter holes? So, maybe the same formula holds? BTW, I've never played a course this sophisticated yet, but I would like to someday.

[DrvFrShow]

Lihu, for example from the short tees, according to LSW, my home course, I should play driver off the tee on only 6 holes because trouble will come into play on those other 8 holes with my driving distance. My smart play would be to use a hybrid on a couple of them, a 5W on even a par 5 tee and some of the par 4s, and a 3W on three of the others. It's those dark zones. If I want to stay in the light zones, that's how I should play the course to leave myself the shortest safe shot to the green.

On the same course, I'm hitting driver off the tee on 14 holes at 6300 yds. I'll be all over the course.

So one reason my handicap is as high as it is, is because of bad course management. I'm not making smart decisions. 5200 yds makes me have to think at the tee not just bang my shot.

We have to realize that LSW is talking about landing in the 1st cut being okay. The second cut up here can be pretty nasty until they cut it shorter in mid-July. It's why I still have a 4i.

Now the other side of this is because we know that the course rating and slope are not linear from 5200 to 6300, I could end up with a 25 HC playing from 6300 like the formula says I should, but then when I play from 5200 with my club I could end up playing like a 12 HC and sandbag the group, while GHIN recalculates my HC around 19. Is that fair? Or should I establish two handicap cards? BTW I'm just guessing. I have no idea of what GHIN uses for the formula on that.

[Shindig]

The standard deviation of my drives is 100 yards so I just play the woman's tee and call it good.

Some of us had quite a bit of fun a few years ago playing the [i]forward[/i] tees on 9/18, which was a Saturday that year. [quote name="Fourputt" url="/t/81028/should-you-play-tees-courses-based-solely-from-driver-times-28/18#post_1120735"]My old home course doesn't even have red tees any more for the forward tees to encourage players to use the tees that are best for their game rather than just selected by gender. [/quote] Many courses near here went to white-blue-black instead of red-white-blue for just this reason. One course -- a bit of a drive from me -- has their tips as red.

[Lihu]

I should play driver off the tee on only 6 holes because trouble will come into play on those other 8 holes

This is a generalization of the specific example I gave with the 330 yards hole, where you don't want to use a driver. However, the fact that you don't need a driver on 8 of the holes has nothing to do with the article. The article specifically stated that you can base the course distance from your driving distance, and not based upon if you need a driver on all the par 4 holes.

Your strategy might be based upon something like a drive distance of 230 yards, where you simply do not drive far enough to carry the OB region between you and the hole. So, you are forced to hit to the dogleg and again for the green. Now, imagine a lower handicap golfer who carries a high 250-260 yards. This 330 yard dogleg par 4 could be shortcut by this golfer, and it would be a long par 3.

This is probably  one reason why courses are rated by length more than anything else, and why the 28 factor might make some sense in regard to driver distance? Not that the article also referenced the driver distance to estimate all the other club distances.

[DrvFrShow]

And the type of shot one hits. A high draw or high fade of 250 or 260 could do that, but if the player hits more of a penetrating shot, cutting that dogleg is a no go. I hit a more penetrating shot.

[DeadMan]

DeadMan failed to mention that Denver is a mile high. Thin air, balls travel at least 10 per cent farther. I know, I lived and played golf in Denver for 23 years. I used to have one eagle most every year out there. I've yet to have one at sea level.

Shhhhh.

Personally, that chart doesn't line up for me. I'm most comfortable playing from 6500-7000 yards, but that chart says I should be playing more than that. I probably CAN play longer, but I wouldn't really want to.

Also, I think you need to look at the longest par 4s most to figure out what length to play. My view is that you should be able to get every par 4 in 2, and then play a variety clubs into the green (i.e., not all wedges).

[billchao]

I'm going with the Tee It Forward yardage. Driver x 28 would be a monster.

BTW @Lihu , I'm not sure they mean average drive as in your exact mathematical mean, but rather the connotative meaning of average, as in what your typical expected driver distance is. This would not include duffs, tree hits, etc, nor would it include your best or longest shots, either.

[Lihu]

And the type of shot one hits. A high draw or high fade of 250 or 260 could do that, but if the player hits more of a penetrating shot, cutting that dogleg is a no go. I hit a more penetrating shot.

Just take your shot and launch it 17 degrees and you can increase your distance. ;-)

[RFKFREAK]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I think this is for a "challenging" course to play?

The way I interpreted this was that for a "comfortable" level of play, take an average drive. This includes duffs and tree hits, slices, OB etc.

If I look at my driving average now, versus my average 4-5 months ago the formula appears to work well. For instance, 4 months ago I barely averaged 225 yards and was even on the fairway most of the time, and hit my 7i almost 145 yards on a good day. The ideal course length calculates to 6300 yards. This was really hard, and I hated playing even the 6400 yard tees on the current course I play, so I tried the ladies tees at 6000 yards. 6000 yards was much more comfortable, because I hit so short. Now, I have a 243 yard average drive coupled with a 7i carry of 165 yards which makes a 6800 yard course just right or me. . .If I stopped hitting trees and slicing/hooking/fading/worm burning, my average drive could theoretically be up to something like 275 yards (total distance of course), and the 7200 yards tees should be playable under the right conditions. It'll be an experiment.

Try using your average drive in the formula, and you might find that distance to be very comfortable to play?

But the estimation doesn't discern between comfortable or challenging.  The author says:

Quote:

multiply the length of a well hit drive for you by 28 and that, in my estimation, is the length of a course that will be challenging but enjoyable to play.

In the author's estimation, multiply a well hit drive by 28.  A well hit drive for me is 280 if I hit it on the screws, however, I would say 250 is the minimum that a solid drive for me is.  And, according to the author, I should play a 7000 yard course, which, as I said, can only make me imagine the score I'd put since I shoot anywhere from 95-105 from the middle/men/white tees.

Hence,  I wouldn't consider using this formula until my HC dropped by at least 10 (hopefully by the end of the season? ).

[Dave2512]

Handicap if accurate is the best marker for overall skill needed to play from a certain distance. I don't agree with most using their best drives as the basis. Any golfer not playing to low single digits golf is playing a game of mishits. The misses get better as a golfer's handicap is lower but they are not eliminated. I have 12 rounds posted on Game Golf my worst drive was 196 and best 299. The 196 was a total blown shot but if I look at my stats of the tee for any given round the difference best to worst drive varies about 80 yards. My average bounces around from an abysmal 225 to 270 depending on the day.

Using the x28 thing it would put me at 7400 yards and that's just nuts even in Denver, which doesn't play 10-15% longer it's more like one club longer at 5280ish. I just got back from playing at sea level and depending on course set up and seasonal conditions I more or less played the same golf I do at home. The courses I play that have tees in the 7500 yard range are an abundance of par 4's in the 470-500 yard range. That decent 270 yard drive leaves a 200 yard approach on at least half the par 4's. My Game Golf approach stats from 175-200 are horrendous. My club performance for clubs used for those shots are horrendous. I play from 6500-6900 and struggle to break 80. I would struggle to break 90 from 7500.

IMO most men play too far back relative to skill. Amateur golfers over estimate not only their best shots but how often they hit them. A guy shooting 85 might hit two maybe three truly good shots in a round. The rest of the day it's a combo of luck and mishits that don't lead to blow up holes. I see guys playing from tees recommended for 0-6 handicap golfers that struggle to play bogey golf with creative score keeping. It's just silly.

[acerimusdux]

Originally Posted by RFKFREAK

In the author's estimation, multiply a well hit drive by 28.  A well hit drive for me is 280 if I hit it on the screws, however, I would say 250 is the minimum that a solid drive for me is.  And, according to the author, I should play a 7000 yard course, which, as I said, can only make me imagine the score I'd put since I shoot anywhere from 95-105 from the middle/men/white tees.

Hence,  I wouldn't consider using this formula until my HC dropped by at least 10 (hopefully by the end of the season? ).

Yes, I think 28 is just too much for most people. I voted for the "tee it forward" yardages because they are at least closer to 25.

I found this interesting from the Lucy Li, interview, two quotes:

I'M ONLY 5-3 AND 100 POUNDS, but I hit my driver about 230 yards. My 7-iron flies 130 yards.

I TRY TO CHOOSE THE TEES that make a course play at 6,200 yards. At the Open, Pinehurst No. 2 was 6,649 yards.

So doing the math, she usually tries to play at 27 times, and Pinehurst was a little long for her at 29 times.

So to me 28 is more like a maximum, where a really good near scratch player might be comfortable. For the rest of us, I think something like 25 times would make for a much more reasonable recommendation.

I also think trying to popularize a rule of thumb based on something like 28 or 30 (which I've also seen) will only lead to more golfers trying to play from distances that are too far for them. After all, the really good players are already going to know from experience what yardages they are comfortable with, and will ignore this kind of advice. I think most of the people who need a simple rule of thumb like this are going to be people who should be playing from a multiple of more like 25 times driver.

[RFKFREAK]

So to me 28 is more like a maximum, where a really good near scratch player might be comfortable.

This.

I don't know what a good starting off number for someone with a high HC should be but I think as a person gets closer to scratch (or maybe single digit HC's), that's when you can start using 28 as a multiplier.

[Dave2512]

If common sense and honesty prevailed the choice should be where you stand a chance to make par on par 4's. If you can occasionally hit one 280 but 10 of 14 drives are squibs in the 225 range average you should toss out the two longest and two shortest par 4's, average the rest and see where 225 leaves you approaches in the 6 maybe 7 iron to PW range. If your squib aka mishit has you hitting hybrids and fairways trying to recover or your mid irons are dropping short and scrambling for you is a 50 yard pitch you are too far back.

[Lihu]

If common sense and honesty prevailed the choice should be where you stand a chance to make par on par 4's. If you can occasionally hit one 280 but 10 of 14 drives are squibs in the 225 range average you should toss out the two longest and two shortest par 4's, average the rest and see where 225 leaves you approaches in the 6 maybe 7 iron to PW range. If your squib aka mishit has you hitting hybrids and fairways trying to recover or your mid irons are dropping short and scrambling for you is a 50 yard pitch you are too far back.

Totally agree. Most people overestimate their average drive distances.

[RFKFREAK]

Totally agree. Most people overestimate their average drive distances.

Totally agree.

Maybe the author should have said average drive rather than well hit drive.