Change of Equipment During Round

[westerndevon]

Now there are more adjustable drivers on the market, are there any ruling forbidding the adjustment of these once you've played your 1st tee shot and your round has commenced?

[Shindig]

Yes; just like you can't modify the lie angle of your irons on the third tee.

[Rulesman]

Now there are more adjustable drivers on the market, are there any ruling forbidding the adjustment of these once you've played your 1st tee shot and your round has commenced?

4-2 . Playing Characteristics Changed and Foreign Material

a . Playing Characteristics Changed

During a stipulated round , the playing characteristics of a club must not be purposely changed by adjustment or by any other means.

[DrvFrShow]

I assume you could do this if you were say playing by yourself: play the first 9 with one adjustment; adjust at the turn. then play the second 9. However technically you should then enter the score as two separate 9 hole scores for the day, not as a single 18 hole score. Thus getting a combined score. I know... picky picky picky.

If you change the adjustment during your round it's a two stroke penalty for each stroke you played with the club in the changed setting up to a maximum of a four stroke penalty for the round in stroke play for handicap purposes. For competition purposes, it's a disqualification.

[DaveP043]

I assume you could do this if you were say playing by yourself: play the first 9 with one adjustment; adjust at the turn. then play the second 9. However technically you should then enter the score as two separate 9 hole scores for the day, not as a single 18 hole score. Thus getting a combined score. I know... picky picky picky.

If you change the adjustment during your round it's a two stroke penalty for each stroke you played with the club in the changed setting up to a maximum of a four stroke penalty for the round in stroke play for handicap purposes. For competition purposes, it's a disqualification.

Interesting thought about splitting the round into two 9-holers, so that the change to the club is not within the "stipulated round.".  In casual play, it makes sense that the player may decide what the "stipulated" round is.  It certainly makes more sense than forcing the player to post a score 4 strokes higher, resulting in a higher handicap.

As for the last sentence, I checked the rules, mostly because I didn't know this one very well.  In competition, the stroke penalty applies when you carry the club, whether you use it or now.  The DQ applies only if you make a stroke with the altered club, or if you don't take the club out of play as soon as you discover that it has been altered.

[David in FL]

I assume you could do this if you were say playing by yourself: play the first 9 with one adjustment; adjust at the turn. then play the second 9. However technically you should then enter the score as two separate 9 hole scores for the day, not as a single 18 hole score. Thus getting a combined score. I know... picky picky picky.

The rules don't care if you're playing by yourself, or with other people. I don't see how splitting a full, 18-hole stipulated round into 2 9-hole mini rounds, played back-to-back, for the sole purpose of attempting to justify a violation of the Rules could be considered anything but a serious breach.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

I assume you could do this if you were say playing by yourself: play the first 9 with one adjustment; adjust at the turn. then play the second 9. However technically you should then enter the score as two separate 9 hole scores for the day, not as a single 18 hole score. Thus getting a combined score. I know... picky picky picky.

The rules don't care if you're playing by yourself, or with other people.

I don't see how splitting a full, 18-hole stipulated round into 2 9-hole mini rounds, played back-to-back, for the sole purpose of attempting to justify a violation of the Rules could be considered anything but a serious breach.

OTOH the significance of a DQ stemming from a serious breach becomes rather meaningless in a casual round you are playing by yourself.  And doesn't stop the round from being posted for handicap purposes.

[David in FL]

OTOH the significance of a DQ stemming from a serious breach becomes rather meaningless in a casual round you are playing by yourself.  And doesn't stop the round from being posted for handicap purposes.

Except in a structured competition, nothing stops anyone from playing by whatever rules they choose, and still posting whatever they like. That doesn't make it right, and this is the rules forum....

[Jeremie Boop]

Except in a structured competition, nothing stops anyone from playing by whatever rules they choose, and still posting whatever they like.

That doesn't make it right, and this is the rules forum....

What if, for example, you state from the start that you are playing each 9 as it's own score because you want to test a different wedge/putter/driver setting etc. Does declaring it ahead of time change anything? To me, it seems one of the best ways to test changes in clubs would be to do so under the same conditions, temperature/wind/firmness of the ground etc.

[DaveP043]

What if, for example, you state from the start that you are playing each 9 as it's own score because you want to test a different wedge/putter/driver setting etc. Does declaring it ahead of time change anything? To me, it seems one of the best ways to test changes in clubs would be to do so under the same conditions, temperature/wind/firmness of the ground etc.

This is what I was contemplating, although I didn't phrase it very well.

On the other hand, a player COULD adjust a club after 9, with the purpose of incurring 4 strokes of penalties (2 strokes on the first two holes he used it on), in order to manipulate his handicap.  As long as a player is required to post all scores, whether there's someone to attest them, or he plays alone, we have to put some trust in the player's integrity.  It seems to me that for the lone player to decide to play two 9-hole stipulated rounds, and adjust or replace clubs in the middle, and post the 9-hole scores honestly, that shows pretty appropriate integrity.

Of course, if I'm competing against this player, even playing a 25-cent nassau, there will be NO adjustments or changes.  If he (or she) does adjust the club, I'd make sure the appropriate penalties were applied, depending on whether its stroke or match play.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

OTOH the significance of a DQ stemming from a serious breach becomes rather meaningless in a casual round you are playing by yourself.  And doesn't stop the round from being posted for handicap purposes.

Except in a structured competition, nothing stops anyone from playing by whatever rules they choose, and still posting whatever they like.

That doesn't make it right, and this is the rules forum....

Huh?  Where did I say it was "right."  The Rules forum is also about how and when to post scores for h'cap.  And in this case a serious breach should not and does not prevent posting.  I didn't say it was not a serious breach.   I merely pointed out that since there was no competition, formal or otherwise, involved, the breach has no effect on the score for competitive purpose (because there is no such score) and the round may (should, must) still be posted.

There are a lot of things people do that we do not advocate or agree with from a rules perspective, but we still need to deal with from a handicap perspective and that is all I was trying to address.  But I think it all still falls under the umbrella of the Rules Forum.  For example, the discussion of how to post a score when someone drops for a lost ball instead of re-hitting is not inappropriate for the Rules forum even though no one condones this as being acceptable under the rules.  Yet a score must still be determined for posting purposes.

Now if you argued that there should have been a 4 stroke penalty assessed, I think you have a case.  But that is different than a serious breach, for which there doesn't really seem to be any penalty from the handicap perspective.

[DrvFrShow]

And thus the flaw in our HC system gets exposed. They want us to post everything.

So if I want to "try out some clubs" or "try some different settings" during a round I'm still supposed to post the score i get for that round even though I didn't play that round under the RoG.

Whereas if I only posted my league scores, which are done under strict RoG, I would have my exact handicap, since some of my other scores include casual rounds with gimmes and non-RoG holes, practice rounds, and rounds where I'm testing stuff like different lofts and perhaps another club.

I think I'll start keeping only my league play (strict RoG) on GHIN for my HC. I'll keep everything on Game Golf for my own reference. That would probably be the best way to go.

[Shindig]

And thus the flaw in our HC system gets exposed. They want us to post everything. So if I want to "try out some clubs" or "try some different settings" during a round I'm still supposed to post the score i get for that round even though I didn't play that round under the RoG.

No? They want you to post every round played under the Rules with the intent of getting the lowest score you can that day. Post those. Rounds where you deliberately take >14 clubs (so you can determine which ones to use in the upcoming tournament) or hit multiple balls (to try different lines off the tee, or putting from different spots on the green to where you expect the cup to be) aren't rounds you're supposed to post.

[sjduffers]

No? They want you to post every round played under the Rules with the intent of getting the lowest score you can that day. Post those. Rounds where you deliberately take >14 clubs (so you can determine which ones to use in the upcoming tournament) or hit multiple balls (to try different lines off the tee, or putting from different spots on the green to where you expect the cup to be) aren't rounds you're supposed to post.

This.  Those are called practice rounds, and should not be posted.  The onus on the player is to not unduly call a round a practice round when he/she does not like the score that would be posted (i.e. too low for a sandbagger, and too high for a vanity capper), by for example dropping a second ball in the middle of the 18th fairway, hitting it and then saying, I can't post this (as I played a second ball)!

Golf is a game of integrity and (for better or worse) it is fairly easy to manipulate a handicap in either direction, even with the relative scrutiny of a handicap committee...

[DrvFrShow]

And then when you go to enter your score in GHIN, like when I tried to enter my last round of 102, the interface popped up with some sort of message because the score was 7 strokes higher than my "normal" score - "Are you sure you want to enter this score?" What? The system was going to kick it anyway. Why did it ask?

[Shindig]

And then when you go to enter your score in GHIN, like when I tried to enter my last round of 102, the interface popped up with some sort of message because the score was 7 strokes higher than my "normal" score - "Are you sure you want to enter this score?" What? The system was going to kick it anyway. Why did it ask?

In case it was a typo? In case you added wrong, it might compel you to check again. When I was in school, the rule when splitting a check was that the youngest person without a math degree had to determine who owed what. People can miscalculate.

[DaveP043]

And then when you go to enter your score in GHIN, like when I tried to enter my last round of 102, the interface popped up with some sort of message because the score was 7 strokes higher than my "normal" score - "Are you sure you want to enter this score?" What? The system was going to kick it anyway. Why did it ask?

Sometimes I enter scores for both my wife and myself.  I've had times where I accidentally signed on with one Ghin number, and tried to enter the scores for the other person.  Since our handicaps are about 8 or 9 strokes different, this message SHOULD make me re-examine all the info and post the correct score for the correct person.  Or as Shindig says, it might make you look again at the number for a typo. It hasn't always worked, and I've had to call the pro shop and have my mistakes corrected, but its just there to help minimize human error.