2016 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[nevets88]

Willet, post RC, agrees with his brother.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/danny-willett-american-fans-showed-my-brother-was-correct

[Ron]

10 hours ago, skydog said:

^Wow, what a disingenuous prick. He attempts to denounce the comments to save face prior to the tournament, then goes on to play like crap (like he's been doing ever since the Masters) and blame it on the fans.

I wish every international player that feels this way would stop accepting the better paychecks and lifestyle that come with playing on the US tour. Better yet, I truly hope that American fans stop supporting with their $$ anyone that feels this way.

You want to see US golf fans- go to Augusta National. You want to see US sports fans- go to the Ryder Cup. Anything done or said at Hazeltine this weekend pales in comparison to what goes on at any Euro soccer match if we're going to compare Apples to Apples.

I will agree somewhat with the last paragraph of this post.  However you can't condemn all sports fans from any country for what a few ignorant ones do.  This was a wonderful Ryder Cup for both teams and the level of play was simply outstanding.   Of course Americans are going to support and cheer for our team  but, I think that most Americans were embarrassed by the profanity and vulgar remarks.   Totally uncalled for!    

Edited October 4, 2016 by Ron

[iacas]

To the point of the few fans, even Darren Clarke and the rest of the European team (sans Danny Willett) were gracious or at least political enough to point out how it was a few bad apples, not every fan. They said that 99.9% of them were fine, and in one case, everyone around the one guy who yelled immediately turned and pointed out the offending fan.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

Willet, post RC, agrees with his brother.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/danny-willett-american-fans-showed-my-brother-was-correct

 

11 hours ago, skydog said:

He attempts to denounce the comments to save face prior to the tournament, then goes on to play like crap and blame it on the fans.

I wish every international player that feels this way would stop accepting the better paychecks and lifestyle that come with playing on the US tour. Better yet, I truly hope that American fans stop supporting with their $$ anyone that feels this way.

You want to see US golf fans- go to Augusta National. You want to see US sports fans- go to the Ryder Cup. Anything done or said at Hazeltine this weekend pales in comparison to what goes on at any Euro soccer match if we're going to compare Apples to Apples.

Agreed - see video below. Fans at American football and baseball games toss a lot of profanity and insults. Difference with golf is there's a lot less distance between the crowd and the players. I want to see Ryder Cup 'stay classy', because it would be stupid to push the fans way back let alone have big fences (or moats even) to keep fans back. Golf crowds and the venues are different so you've got to draw a sharper line on behavior.

That said, the cheering on the shot to the water was just a reaction to the implication in the match - it meant the U.S. team chance to pull out a half was still alive so they roared. Lots of bad tee shots from the Euros didn't seem to get a peep. Fans at Gleneagles were a bit tamer, likely because the course wasn't close to major metropolitan area like Hazeltine was so only real golf fans in attendance.

11 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Sorry but I'm not feeling bad for Willett, his brother is an idiot and put Danny in the cross hairs with his poor attempt at "satire".  While Willett backed away from his brother's piece, he had to know there would be some residual effect from the fans.  

He can be bitter but the tweet he sent out demonstrated his words prior to Friday were just damage control for within his team and he likely shares his brothers sentiments.  

Unfortunately the second comment starting to seem a bit true now. The pro-tracer compilation shows quiet and respectful fans when the Euros were teeing off. Rory didn't stop to fight the jerk who shouted out the insult, just to point him out to security and get him kicked out. Fairly played. I would have done the same as a player, opponent, or as a spectator.

The offense of Pete Willet's piece is that it labeled all golf fans / Americans with what came off as clever to only a few people who may have some deep-seated antipathy towards Americans. It would be like me writing a "satire" that characterized the entire population of England based on these guys:

As the BBC commentator rightly points out, only a minority of fans let alone the general population.

1 hour ago, Ron said:

you can't condemn all sports fans from any country for what a few ignorant ones do.  This was a wonderful Ryder Cup for both teams and the level of play was simply outstanding.   Of course Americans are going to support and cheer for our team  but, I think that most Americans were embarrassed by the profanity and vulgar remarks.   Totally uncalled for!    

Well said. IMO, keep the non-golf fans out with ticket prices and enough volunteers / security to identify and toss the occasional yob. You also can't judge the average U.S. golf fan based on a few well-lubricated fans who you hear shout baba-booey and mashed potato on tv.

[70sSanO]

PJ Willet wrote this about the American Ryder Cup fans...

Like one of those brainless bastards from your childhood, the one that pulled down your shorts during the school’s Christmas assembly, they only have the courage to keg you if they’re backed up by a giggling group of reprobates.

But after the Masters victory he said...

PJ told about a prank he and his brothers pulled on Danny when he was about 12. They made Danny go in the trunk of the car, and then pretended to get pulled over by a cop who angrily demanded to search the trunk. When they slowly opened the trunk, poor little Danny was curled up in fright.

"He was shivering with his eyes shut thinking he was about to be taken off by the feds . . . he was terrified," PJ recalled.

Sounds like the PJ Willet diatribe might be as much of a self description of PJ Willet as it is of the American fans.  Sheds some lights on what depths from within he had to draw from for his composition.

John

Edited October 4, 2016 by 70sSanO

[dsc123]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

 Rory didn't stop to fight the jerk who shouted out the insult, just to point him out to security and get him kicked out. Fairly played. I would have done the same as a player, opponent, or as a spectator.

 

 

 

"It was there that a member of the gallery (let’s pray he isn’t a golfer) screamed, “Suck a d--- Rory!”

In the 45 seconds or so before the security men hauled away the miscreant, McIlroy was up to the challenge. “If you want to back that up, I’m right here,” said the young Irishman."

 

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-price-thats-paid-for-the-ryder-cup-becoming-bigger-than-golf

You don't hear that in the video,  but you hear someone pleading with rory to keep walking,  as if warning him not to do something stupid.  It's not something that would be said if he were just calling  security. 

Not that this should be THE story coming out of this terrific event, and I don't think it's a big deal and it doesn't change my opinion of rory (I like rory!) .  but it rubs me the wrong way when the fans are roundly criticized for "profanity" (seriously! lol! For using "bad"  words! ) and the guys getting paid millions to play golf get a pass.  Should  we apply the "95%" qualifier when we talk about the European players good behavior? 

 For God's sake we've got a man running for president who makes dick jokes in primary debates and sends tweets at 3 am telling people to go find a sex tape. 

Edited October 4, 2016 by dsc123

[newtogolf]

Rory was a bit more emotional than he usually is.  Could be all the time he's spent in the gym has him believing that he's now a tough guy.  The fan was out of line and should have been escorted off the course but golfers in general need to be a bit more thick skinned.  

Send them to a Islanders - Rangers game and let them hear what's said to the visiting team and they'll get a good sense of what other athletes put up with from fans.  

[RH31]

27 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Rory was a bit more emotional than he usually is.  Could be all the time he's spent in the gym has him believing that he's now a tough guy.  The fan was out of line and should have been escorted off the course but golfers in general need to be a bit more thick skinned.  

Send them to a Islanders - Rangers game and let them hear what's said to the visiting team and they'll get a good sense of what other athletes put up with from fans.  

I disagree. It's golf, its supposed to be a gentleman's game. There is no physical contact between players like hockey. Hockey is a tough, loud, physical sport and the normal atmosphere is chaotic.

Golf is a game, that is typically played under quiet conditions. There is no reason a pro golfer should have to be more thick skinned just because some so called fans can't control themselves.

[natureboy]

19 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

PJ told about a prank he and his brothers pulled on Danny when he was about 12. They made Danny go in the trunk of the car, and then pretended to get pulled over by a cop who angrily demanded to search the trunk. When they slowly opened the trunk, poor little Danny was curled up in fright.

"He was shivering with his eyes shut thinking he was about to be taken off by the feds . . . he was terrified," PJ recalled.

Sounds like the PJ Willet diatribe might be as much of a self description of PJ Willet as it is of the American fans.  Sheds some lights on what depths from within he had to draw from for his composition.

He does sound a bit of a bloody wanker. Probably can't take his younger brother eclipsing him for success/attention, or can't let go of the sadistic pleasure of torturing his little brother.

10 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Rory was a bit more emotional than he usually is.  Could be all the time he's spent in the gym has him believing that he's now a tough guy.  The fan was out of line and should have been escorted off the course but golfers in general need to be a bit more thick skinned.  Send them to a Islanders - Rangers game and let them hear what's said to the visiting team and they'll get a good sense of what other athletes put up with from fans.  

Rory was just in 'fight mode' mentally. No back down. Plus he was basically egging the guy on so he was guaranteed to be thrown out saving another Euro player from the same treatment.

Sometimes the athletes don't put up with it. I'm glad golf has a different tone than these other sports both between competitors and with the fans.

 

10 hours ago, RH31 said:

I disagree. It's golf, its supposed to be a gentleman's game. There is no physical contact between players like hockey. Hockey is a tough, loud, physical sport and the normal atmosphere is chaotic.

Golf is a game, that is typically played under quiet conditions. There is no reason a pro golfer should have to be more thick skinned just because some so called fans can't control themselves.

And Hockey has screens intended to separate fans and players. These 'fans' and players in the video above all got ejected. There's no tolerance for this even though the sports themselves can be rough between opponents.

Golf is different as a game so I think it's fitting that expectations for spectators are a bit different too. That doesn't mean a crowd cheering a bad shot that keeps their team alive in a match is the same as slagging someone with profane abuse. One is loud, partisan fans understanding the state of the match. The other is some combative drunk ass trying to impress his juvenile friends or vent his inner demons. IMO they're very different.

Edited October 4, 2016 by natureboy

[newtogolf]

6 minutes ago, natureboy said:

He does sound a bit of a bloody wanker. Probably can't take his younger brother eclipsing him for success/attention, or can't let go of the sadistic pleasure of torturing his little brother.

Rory was just in 'fight mode' mentally. No back down. Plus he was basically egging the guy on so he was guaranteed to be thrown out saving another Euro player from the same treatment.

Sometimes the athletes don't put up with it. I'm glad golf has a different tone than these other sports both between competitors and with the fans.

 

And Hockey has screens intended to separate fans and players. These 'fans' and players in the video above all got ejected. There's no tolerance for this even though the sports themselves can be rough between opponents.

Golf is different as a game so I think it's fitting that expectations for spectators are a bit different too. That doesn't mean a crowd cheering a bad shot that keeps their team alive in a match is the same as slagging someone with profane abuse. One is loud, partisan fans understanding the state of the match. The other is some combative drunk ass trying to impress his juvenile friends or vent his inner demons. IMO they're very different.

I'm pretty sure the screens are there to make sure a fan doesn't lose his teeth from a puck but I get what you mean.  

[natureboy]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

I'm pretty sure the screens are there to make sure a fan doesn't lose his teeth from a puck but I get what you mean.  

If that was true there wouldn't need to be a screen between the penalty box and the bench and the crowd. How about the moats, steel bars, and razor wire around soccer pitches?

[natureboy]

18 hours ago, dsc123 said:

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-price-thats-paid-for-the-ryder-cup-becoming-bigger-than-golf

That article's suggestion that if a fan attempts to distract a player then the putt should be conceded doesn't make any sense, because then the fans would do it all the time hoping to get a concession for their side.

I think "you'll never win a major" at Sergio is obnoxious, but in-bounds. I would consider 'f#%^ing useless' out of bounds because of the profanity. Shouting 'antique furniture' if Bubba had been coming to on the tee I would consider in-bounds too. Just not during his setup and swing, unless he encouraged it.

[dsc123]

13 minutes ago, natureboy said:

That article's suggestion that if a fan attempts to distract a player then the putt should be conceded doesn't make any sense, because then the fans would do it all the time hoping to get a concession for their side.

 

I think it would only be applied against the home team.  Like fan interference in baseball.

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

I think it would only be applied against the home team.  Like fan interference in baseball.

If you apply it to individual jerks there's no way to prevent 'false flag' interlopers. Applied by an official if the entire crowd (or most) are guilty it might work, but it didn't seem the 'entire crowd' or even a large segment of it was over the line.

[Ernest Jones]

11 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Rory was a bit more emotional than he usually is.  Could be all the time he's spent in the gym has him believing that he's now a tough guy.  The fan was out of line and should have been escorted off the course but golfers in general need to be a bit more thick skinned.  

Send them to a Islanders - Rangers game and let them hear what's said to the visiting team and they'll get a good sense of what other athletes put up with from fans.  

Pure milquetoast. Try a Bruins - Habs game! Now THAT is some animosity. Rangers - Islanders? Pfffttt....

[Hardspoon]

12 hours ago, newtogolf said:

Rory was a bit more emotional than he usually is.  Could be all the time he's spent in the gym has him believing that he's now a tough guy.  The fan was out of line and should have been escorted off the course but golfers in general need to be a bit more thick skinned.  

Send them to a Islanders - Rangers game and let them hear what's said to the visiting team and they'll get a good sense of what other athletes put up with from fans.  

That's not a great example...put a hockey player in a situation where he is walking as close to the fan as Rory was and that guy is getting his ass kicked.

If anything, I think golfers have a thicker skin since they can hear individual insults that they'd never stand for face-to-face (in a bar for example).

[boogielicious]

10 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Pure milquetoast. Try a Bruins - Habs game! Now THAT is some animosity. Rangers - Islanders? Pfffttt....

Nah. We're just like family! We love each other!  Although, it is way calmer now than it was is the 70s through 90s.

I don't understand why "fans" think it is smart to heckle a professional athlete. To me, it is dumb. The Ryder Cup players are phenomenal golfers. No "fan" in the crowd is in the same solar system in ability. It says more about the inadequacy of the fan than the golfer.

Heckling a hockey player is moronic. The only think dumber would be heckling an MMA fighter. 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, boogielicious said:

I don't understand why "fans" think it is smart to heckle a professional athlete. To me, it is dumb. The Ryder Cup players are phenomenal golfers. No "fan" in the crowd is in the same solar system in ability. It says more about the inadequacy of the fan than the golfer.

Heckling a hockey player is moronic. The only think dumber would be heckling an MMA fighter. 

You don't?

It has nothing to do with their relative abilities.