Problem Combining Cavity Back and Blade Wedges

[calibnoodle]

I am an 11.7 handicap and have a set of TaylorMade Burner Plus irons with SW, AW, and PW. I am satisfied with these cavity back irons and am quite adept with the wedges. I recently used a GolfNow reward and bought a Cleveland 64 degree wedge. What I have found is that the Cleveland wedge—due to it being a blade type—feels radically different than my other wedges, to the point that it's screwing up my short game. I realize that the 64 degree wedge is a unique animal, but this problem is more than just the loft. The amount of swing, the weight, and everything about the clubs is just vastly different. For now I have shelved the Cleveland. For the future, I don't envision a time where the differing kinds of clubs—cavity back and blades—can coexist in my game. The "feel" is too inconsistent when switching between the two types.

I may try to get Cleveland to take the wedge back and get their 588 RTX 2.0 CB. It only comes in a 60 degree which is fine. Has anyone else run into a similar problem regarding mixing the different kinds of clubs? Thanks in advance.

Also, does anyone have the 588 RTX 2.0 CB wedge from Cleveland. What are your thoughts about it and does it come in satin rather than black?

PS: Would also appreciate input from anyone who has been using the 588 RTX 2.0 CB.

[SavvySwede]

  calibnoodle said:

For the future, I don't envision a time where the differing kinds of clubs—cavity back and blades—can coexist in my game. The "feel" is too inconsistent when switching between the two types.

Blade and cavity back wedges are really no different. The extra weight, loft, and lower COG of wedge heads make them so forgiving anyway the cavity doesn't really do anything at that end of the set except maintain visual continuity.

  calibnoodle said:

I realize that the 64 degree wedge is a unique animal, but this problem is more than just the loft.

Pretty sure it is just the loft. Very few people can get much use out of a 64, especially one with relatively low bounce.

  calibnoodle said:

PS: Would also appreciate input from anyone who has been using the 588 RTX 2.0 CB.

I have and 588 RTX 2.0 CB wedge. Only real difference is that is has a larger face which is useful for when you lay it wide open. Less chance you'll completely slip under the ball.

[mvmac]

  calibnoodle said:

The amount of swing, the weight, and everything about the clubs is just vastly different. For now I have shelved the Cleveland. For the future, I don't envision a time where the differing kinds of clubs—cavity back and blades—can coexist in my game. The "feel" is too inconsistent when switching between the two types.

Cavity back wedges will launch a little higher but I think the look or your perception of wedges is throwing you off. Blade wedges are going to be about the same or even a little heavier than cavity back wedges. Most golfers have blade like wedges, you don't really need a cavity or forgiveness with wedges.

  SavvySwede said:

Blade and cavity back wedges are really no different. The extra weight, loft, and lower COG of wedge heads make them so forgiving anyway the cavity doesn't really do anything at that end of the set except maintain visual continuity.

Yep.

[ryan772]

I have the tm speedblades and they are cavity back but the gap wedge that comes with is a blade and i use cleveland 56 and 60 wedge blades. It took me about 1 round to get used to the gap but i actually prefer uaing that and the other wedges over the cbs. I think the 64 is just a tough club, im still learning more and getting used too the 60 degree.

[calibnoodle]

I certainly appreciate the input, but I may not have framed the situation very well. No matter what some have inferred regarding the fact that the two types of clubs are really "the same", they're not. This is the issue: Swinging a CB wedge 5-6 times, then hitting a solitary blade wedge. The feel is so completely different that it's a mystery. Then next similar situation, back to the CB...and cross your fingers because there won't be any consistency.

Does anyone have a mixed group of wedges, some CB and some blades? These would be the people I really want to hear from. They will have experienced the issue I'm addressing.

Thanks to all.

[Jeremie Boop]

  calibnoodle said:

I certainly appreciate the input, but I may not have framed the situation very well. No matter what some have inferred regarding the fact that the two types of clubs are really "the same", they're not. This is the issue: Swinging a CB wedge 5-6 times, then hitting a solitary blade wedge. The feel is so completely different that it's a mystery. Then next similar situation, back to the CB...and cross your fingers because there won't be any consistency.

Does anyone have a mixed group of wedges, some CB and some blades? These would be the people I really want to hear from. They will have experienced the issue I'm addressing.

Thanks to all.

Until recently I had pw and aw that were burner plus and sw/lw in blades. But truthfully it didn't make any difference to me, they didn't feel any different or cause me any issues switching between the 2.

[dkolo]

  calibnoodle said:

I certainly appreciate the input, but I may not have framed the situation very well. No matter what some have inferred regarding the fact that the two types of clubs are really "the same", they're not. This is the issue: Swinging a CB wedge 5-6 times, then hitting a solitary blade wedge. The feel is so completely different that it's a mystery. Then next similar situation, back to the CB...and cross your fingers because there won't be any consistency.

Does anyone have a mixed group of wedges, some CB and some blades? These would be the people I really want to hear from. They will have experienced the issue I'm addressing.

Thanks to all.

I used to have a cavity back SW that came with my set. I despised it and bought a bladed one instead. I found it useless for anything but full shots. I don't feel good manipulating the face open or closed with a cavity backed wedge. My PW being matched to my set as well means I rarely chip with it; it's too chunky and I don't transition well to it from my usual chipping with a bladed gap / sand / lob wedge.

[Gunther]

  calibnoodle said:

I certainly appreciate the input, but I may not have framed the situation very well. No matter what some have inferred regarding the fact that the two types of clubs are really "the same", they're not. This is the issue: Swinging a CB wedge 5-6 times, then hitting a solitary blade wedge. The feel is so completely different that it's a mystery. Then next similar situation, back to the CB...and cross your fingers because there won't be any consistency. Does anyone have a mixed group of wedges, some CB and some blades? These would be the people I really want to hear from. They will have experienced the issue I'm addressing. Thanks to all.

Yes, I experienced the same issue although I admit it could have been my perception. I had 52, 56, and 60 degree Vokey (blade) wedges. Hit them ok but for some reason on full shots, I didn't have much confidence with them. Seemed the ball would roll up the face and as such, I wouldn't get the proper distance. They just seemed too thin or something. I went searching for gap and sand wedges that matched my set (R7 TP). Took a few months, found the SW 1st and the gap a couple months later. The difference has been dramatic. I have so much confidence with those clubs now, I hit the SW 100-105 and the gap right around 115. I'm very consistent with them and it's turned out to be one of the best equipment changes I've ever made. Still have the 60 and use it from 85 or 90 in but often, if I have a 90 yarder, I'll choke down on the SW rather than try to crunch the 60. Holed out a 91 yarder with a choked down SW not long ago, in fact. So, my experience mirrors yours in that I find the CB wedges to be more substantial(?), as such, I have more confidence which naturally leads to better results.

[Hatchman]

Yes. TM Rocketbladz Tour PW & AW, Calloway 56 & 64, and Cleveland 60. I like the AW with spinner shaft and Cleveland 60 best. Plus lot of balls hit with them while on down time however.

[WUTiger]

Our club's pro shop has several RTX 2.0 demo wedges. I took the 60º blade and CB versions and did a 45-minute side-by-side with the two. The two seemed comparable. Only difference I found was the CB was a little easier to hit off a close-cut fairway lie. That may more be my swing than the clubs. The ball really jumped off the clubface with both - even short wedges got up nicely. But, the clubs feel heavier than my current Cleveland wedges, which I had reshafted this spring for lighter weight.

Heavy RTX shaft weight (125 grams stock) may be part of your problem. I have a similar situation. Last summer I got my Callaway X20 Tours reshafted from PX 5.0 (115 grams / Firm flex) to NS Pro 8950GH (97 grams / R flex). X20T had PW as highest lofted club.

I also carry Cleveland CG14 wedges in 50º, 54º and 58º. The CG14s came with the TRAction (Tour Reflex Action) wedge flex shafts. These weigh in at 125 grams, much heavier than my new iron shafts. This spring, I was leaving a lot of my wedge shots short, and not getting through the ball very well.

So, I looked around at different shafts and ended up going with the KBS Wedge shaft in 110 grams, R-flex for my 54 and 58. I got the NS Pro 8950 for my 50º gap wedge. (More likely to hit full shots with PW and GW). This has worked out well. (S and L shafts are now +13 grams heavier than irons, not +28).

With your situation, the shaft weight of the RTX 2.0 my be a factor in its odd feel. It's probably a LOT heavier than your iron and other wedge shafts. As near as I can tell, the TM Burner Plus irons may have either Burner 85 (85 gr. shaft) or NS Pro 950 (95 gram) shafts. Your best bet might be to get a 60º LW in either Burner or Burner 2.0 if you can find one. This would be a much more similar head design and shaft to your other wedges.

Some players like heavier shafts in their specialty wedges, others like to use the same shaft as in their irons. Whatever works; being that you have an 11 HDCP, it seems like "same shaft" works for you.

(Edit = grammar fix).

[SavvySwede]

  WUTiger said:

With your situation, the shaft weight of the RTX 2.0 my be a factor in its odd feel. It's probably a LOT heavier than your iron and other wedge shafts. As near as I can tell, the TM Burner Plus irons may have either Burner 85 (85 gr. shaft) or NS Pro 950 (95 gram) shafts.   Your best bet might be to get a 60º LW in either Burner or Burner 2.0 if you can find one. This would be a much more similar head design and shaft to your other wedges.

Some players like heavier shafts in their specialty wedges, others like to use the same shaft as in their irons. Whatever works; being that you have an 11 HDCP, it seems like "same shaft" works for you.

Yeah. After thinking about this thread for a while I started to wonder if this wasn't just a simple static weight/swingweight issue. Looking at Taylormade's web page on the irons I also see that particular model of irons has some draw bias so that could be a factor as well.

[JazzFatCat]

I also think it is a swing weight issue. If you look up the specifications for the irons the swing weight of the wedges that came with the set are D2 whereas the swing weight of the Cleveland wedge is probably D6.

I had the same problem recently when I bought a new set of irons that didn't come with a full set of wedges and so I bought 3 Cleveland 588 RTX blade wedges. The irons are D1 swing weight with graphite shafts and the wedges are D6 with steel shafts. I thought the big difference in feel between the irons and wedges was due to the shafts but I now know that putting lighter graphite shafts in the wedges would only increase their swing weight and make the issue worse. I was told that wedge heads are made so heavy so that they can get through the rough better.

This site shows that there isn't a difference in swing weight between the Cleveland blade and cavity back versions so I doubt getting a cavity back version of the wedge will solve the issue.

http://www.golfclubspec.com/wedge.php

[calibnoodle]

Thanks a bunch for your input! Because it was a GolfNow deal, I was limited to the Cleveland brand. It didn't cross my mind that there might be a 60 degree type wedge available in the Burner Plus. That would be great if possible. I know that some have said there's no problem intermingling club types, but it seems to me that a set of wedges would be so much mor copacetic if they were the same. I will definitely look into that.

[DrvFrShow]

The wedges that came with my set are 45 and 50 (BioCells). I just have a 56 Vokey SM5 and a Cleveland 588 cavity back 60*. Because of the distance gap between the GW and the 56, I had the loft on the 56 reduced to 54. Being a forged blade type I have better distance control with it, and it shouldn't be a problem with a 6 degree gap to the lob wedge the way I play. I do know how to work the wedges. The 60* Cleveland cavity back isn't that much more forgiving.

[dbuck]

Regardless of what any of us say, if you can trade the wedge for one you have more confidence in, do it.

That said, I have mixed wedges and mixed results.

I have a PING ZING 2 sw that is the epitome of "shovel". From almost any lie it is just a no-brain 3/4 swing from about 60-70 yards. I have an old forged blade Wilson JP pitching wedge that is like the girl with the curl in the nursery rhyme. When she is good, she is very, very good, but when she is bad, she is horrid. When I have the "feel", a blade wedge, specifically that wedge,  is what I want. The aforementioned PING is a blunt instrument when I want to get on the green and hit it straight, but I can't do anything else with it.

The long and short is that one can mix wedges with good results, but what is important is what gives YOU the most confidence--a most essential element in wedge work.

[CybrSlicr]

  dbuck said:

The long and short is that one can mix wedges with good results, but what is important is what gives YOU the most confidence--a most essential element in wedge work.

Well stated.

I have Maltby KE4 Cavity back irons and Maltby blade wedges and I am happy with both. They do feel a little different but I have gotten very comfortable with them all - so the difference doesn't bother me at all. I'm willing to bet that a few sessions at the range with the blade wedges and you would begin to feel comfortable also - but that's certainly a personal decision.