Lost Ball Rule is Stupid

[saevel25]

Well, since he says you help him look for the ball for about ten minutes… I say you take the ball out of your pocket, tell him you found it after eight minutes, and claim victory.

I've heard that joke before, but not with the "ten minutes" thing. That guy should revise that part of his routine. :)

I agree, it should be somewhat more believable with the rules ;)

That reminds me of the scene from Goldfinger.

[pumaAttack]

I think the biggest issue in this thread is wanting to play by the rules but needing a practical solution.

Yes, if it is a tournament or competition, and you lose your ball, you have to go back and replay the shot.  I get it and understand the rule.

But if you are playing a casual round on a crowded public course, there seems to be room for an adapted rule.  It is not practical or wise to re-tee after searching for 5 minutes and its not fair to hit a provisional all the time.

I want to play within the rules but they don't allow me to take the 10 minutes on a backed up course to re-hit.   I guess you could say just take a two stroke penalty, but that seems overly harsh imo.  If I hit one into the woods, I would agree with the penalty.  If I hit one under a fairway leaf, I don't agree with it.

The problem is that nobody can ever for sure say what is fair and what is not, I get that.   Because of that, it would largely rely on that one persons acceptance of what is fair.   With the one-stroke penalty solution, I already feel the hit of the lost ball and am hitting 3 instead of 2. Strictly because I can't visually track a golf ball well.  The game is not about eye-sight, so why is that a penalty?  Shouldn't the penalty be for a bad shot, not bad vision?

I feel the one stroke penalty at the closest and most fair locale is a good compromise as an adapted rule.

[dkolo]

I feel the one stroke penalty at the closest and most fair locale is a good compromise as an adapted rule.

Understood, but most everyone else here disagrees for reasons stated earlier.

[pumaAttack]

Understood, but most everyone else here disagrees for reasons stated earlier.

Give me an alternative?  I know what the rule is, so don't just say that.

That rule is way too impractical to put into use on a normal public course during weekend play.  Rounds already take 5 plus hours, and you want people to walk back to the tee?  Hitting provisionals isn't practical either.

Two strokes for bad vision is against the principles of the game, IMO.  I did not hit a bad shot, so why the penalty?  Again this is for situations where the ball would normally be found, not in the woods, etc.

[DaveP043]

Give me an alternative?  I know what the rule is, so don't just say that.

That rule is way too impractical to put into use on a normal public course during weekend play.  Rounds already take 5 plus hours, and you want people to walk back to the tee?  Hitting provisionals isn't practical either.

Two strokes for bad vision is against the principles of the game, IMO.  I did not hit a bad shot, so why the penalty?  Again this is for situations where the ball would normally be found, not in the woods, etc.

If its casual play, and you're not playing me for money, do whatever you want to do.  If you choose to drop one and take just one stroke penalty, feel free.  If anything, that procedure will give you a slightly lower handicap than you should have, so you're only cheating yourself.  I'm completely in favor of everyone else in the world having a lower handicap than they really should have, unless its my partner.  Just don't ask for any of the folks who DO play by the rules, even when its inconvenient, to agree that its the "right" thing to do.

[dkolo]

Give me an alternative?  I know what the rule is, so don't just say that.

That rule is way too impractical to put into use on a normal public course during weekend play.  Rounds already take 5 plus hours, and you want people to walk back to the tee?  Hitting provisionals isn't practical either.

Two strokes for bad vision is against the principles of the game, IMO.  I did not hit a bad shot, so why the penalty?  Again this is for situations where the ball would normally be found, not in the woods, etc.

The rules aren't penalizing you for bad vision, that's your own spin on it. You hit a shot somewhere other than where you thought it would be and now you can't find it. That's why you're being penalized. Hitting provisionals is very practical. If you're losing balls because your view of where it lands is obstructed, hit it somewhere where it'll be easy to see. We're going in circles. Your proposal, such as it is, doesn't comport with the spirit of the rules and would lead to problems of implementation. I put out a challenge to write a formal rule that lays out procedures and guidelines like a regular rule of golf does (not a cocktail napkin draft either). I still haven't seen one that we can work through hypotheticals with successfully and which is more fair / equitable than the current rule.

[newtogolf]

Give me an alternative?  I know what the rule is, so don't just say that.

That rule is way too impractical to put into use on a normal public course during weekend play.  Rounds already take 5 plus hours, and you want people to walk back to the tee?  Hitting provisionals isn't practical either.

Two strokes for bad vision is against the principles of the game, IMO.  I did not hit a bad shot, so why the penalty?  Again this is for situations where the ball would normally be found, not in the woods, etc.

Read the whole thread.  Provisionals are very practical, it should take less than a minute.

If you don't like the rule or hitting a provisional do whatever you want so long as you're not playing for money or in a tournament.

[Mac62]

If its casual play, and you're not playing me for money, do whatever you want to do.  If you choose to drop one and take just one stroke penalty, feel free.  If anything, that procedure will give you a slightly lower handicap than you should have, so you're only cheating yourself.  I'm completely in favor of everyone else in the world having a lower handicap than they really should have, unless its my partner.  Just don't ask for any of the folks who DO play by the rules, even when its inconvenient, to agree that its the "right" thing to do.

This is the most sensible answer, and I think it's been repeated over and over throughout this thread.  The only rationale for making a new rule about it would be to make the person feel that it's okay and they're still playing by the rules.

[pumaAttack]

Read the whole thread.  Provisionals are very practical, it should take less than a minute.

If you don't like the rule or hitting a provisional do whatever you want so long as you're not playing for money or in a tournament.

Hitting two shots, searching for the first ball, then walking over to the provisional takes much much longer than 1 minute...

Out of curiosity, how many people here walk and how many people use a cart every time they play?

[pumaAttack]

If its casual play, and you're not playing me for money, do whatever you want to do.  If you choose to drop one and take just one stroke penalty, feel free.  If anything, that procedure will give you a slightly lower handicap than you should have, so you're only cheating yourself.  I'm completely in favor of everyone else in the world having a lower handicap than they really should have, unless its my partner.  Just don't ask for any of the folks who DO play by the rules, even when its inconvenient, to agree that its the "right" thing to do.

I have already addressed that.  I know I can do whatever I want in a casual round.

The issue is more playing by the rules, as I think is clear we want to do, while addressing an impractical situation.  I guess you could say the fair way would be a two-stroke penalty and drop at the site of best guess.

[dkolo]

Hitting two shots, searching for the first ball, then walking over to the provisional takes much much longer than 1 minute...

Not really, and it's not time that prolongs the round, other than the tee-off part. When you get to where your ball is, you'll either pick up your provisional, have someone else pick it up, or actually wind up playing it if it turns out your first shot was actually lost. You're conflating when you hit a provisional for a badly hit ball with when you hit a provisional just to be safe. You were claiming you were being punished for good shots that you just can't find because of your bad vision. These are shots you should find the overwhelming majority of the time, and you have the provisional just in case, and you just pick your provisional up on the way to or after your shot. When you badly mishit a shot, you should be hitting a provisional anyway under any circumstances. This scenario is when you're really just trying to save strokes through your proposed "Drop it where it should be!" rule.

[krupa]

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=180&Rule;=100

Rule Misc.

Rules Change Process

Q.What is the process by which the Rules of Golf are changed?

A.Since 1952, the Rules of Golf have been published jointly by the USGA and the R&A; in Scotland.

The Rules Committees of each ruling body meet separately several times per year and twice per year representatives from both ruling bodies (along with one representative from the Royal Canadian Golf Association) meet as the Joint Rules Committee.

The Decisions on the Rules of Golf book is revised every two years (even numbered years) and the Rules of Golf are revised every four years (leap years).

Looks like the rules are due for an update...

[pumaAttack]

Not really, and it's not time that prolongs the round, other than the tee-off part. When you get to where your ball is, you'll either pick up your provisional, have someone else pick it up, or actually wind up playing it if it turns out your first shot was actually lost. You're conflating when you hit a provisional for a badly hit ball with when you hit a provisional just to be safe. You were claiming you were being punished for good shots that you just can't find because of your bad vision. These are shots you should find the overwhelming majority of the time, and you have the provisional just in case, and you just pick your provisional up on the way to or after your shot. When you badly mishit a shot, you should be hitting a provisional anyway under any circumstances. This scenario is when you're really just trying to save strokes through your proposed "Drop it where it should be!" rule.

I think you need to get out a timer next time you hit a provisional....

[dkolo]

I think you need to get out a timer next time you hit a provisional....

I don't go to a teebox without two golf balls and tees in my pocket. I'll have the provisional on the peg before the first one hits the ground if I don't like the line it's going on.

[ColinL]

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=180&Rule;=100

Looks like the rules are due for an update...

Yes, with effect from January 2016.

[DaveP043]

I think the biggest issue in this thread is wanting to play by the rules but needing a practical solution.

Yes, if it is a tournament or competition, and you lose your ball, you have to go back and replay the shot.  I get it and understand the rule.

But if you are playing a casual round on a crowded public course, there seems to be room for an adapted rule.  It is not practical or wise to re-tee after searching for 5 minutes and its not fair to hit a provisional all the time.

I have already addressed that.  I know I can do whatever I want in a casual round.

The issue is more playing by the rules, as I think is clear we want to do, while addressing an impractical situation.  I guess you could say the fair way would be a two-stroke penalty and drop at the site of best guess.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you want.  In the first post, you're looking for a adapted rule that you'll find more practical than actually playing by the rules in a casual round.  When I suggest one, you say you knew that already.   So tell us, what exactly do you WANT the rule to say?  And will this "rule" be used in tournaments, or in casual golf, both, or neither?

[pumaAttack]

I don't go to a teebox without two golf balls and tees in my pocket. I'll have the provisional on the peg before the first one hits the ground if I don't like the line it's going on.

Isn't that kind of against the principles of the game?  Seems to be a lot of extra practice during a round...

I meant the time it takes to walk between the two balls.  I highly doubt its within a minute walk of each, including time to look for the first.

[pumaAttack]

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you want.  In the first post, you're looking for a adapted rule that you'll find more practical than actually playing by the rules in a casual round.  When I suggest one, you say you knew that already.   So tell us, what exactly do you WANT the rule to say?  And will this "rule" be used in tournaments, or in casual golf, both, or neither?

I am saying rules evolve.  They are not the same since day 1.

I am looking for proposals and feedback on a compromise between the current rule and situations that lie more in a grey area.  To me the rule is written for situations that are clearly lost.  Off a clif, in the woods, etc.

That rule does not fairly apply to all situations involving a lost ball.

Having the same penalty for a ball that is sliced 100 yards into the deep woods as a shot that is hit down the middle of the fairway but into a leaf patch, etc. seems silly to me.  I believe the penalty is for the shot quality not the ability to find it.