Why all the testosterone?

[billchao]

Something I see in these posts is something I sure don't understand, and haven't understood for a very long time. Yet I see it often.

I carry my driver 235 or so, certainly not a long hitter. I can sure swing a lot harder, pick up maybe 10-15 yards of carry on my better hits, but my rhythm would suffer, my one way miss would turn into a two way miss, I'd be all over the place and my scores would suffer.

So I gotta ask, to you higher handicappers who hit it a relative mile, why not swing a little slower/smoother, develop a one way miss with control, and keep it in play all the time at 250 rather than many at 275 and more than a few in the weeds?  With better rhythm to boot?

Surely there is a simple answer to this, but I sure don't understand  Honest question.

If only it were that easy. I'm in complete control over my swing, never out of balance, never swing out of my shoes, and still have next to no clubface control. It's not about how hard I swing, it's about all the unnecessary movements in my swing.

Swinging easier and trying to hit flighted shots is beneficial....to an extent. Remember, it's the mechanics that are flawed; a shorter swing with flawed mechanics will still have flawed mechanics, even though it's easier to get the compensations timed correctly. The second part of it is having to relearn your target distances for the shorter swing and occasionally airmailing shots over the green.

Think about it. You carry your driver 235? And I'm guessing your 150 club is your 7I? Try to play your 7I 135 all the time, and your driver 200. You'll probably have an easier time of it because you're a better player, but I doubt it will improve your scores any.

[Natural Patrick]

This is kind of what I was getting at, that several yards variation is possible in the readings because you need to measure the distance of the ball washer or whatever to the actual teeing position. This could have been a point of contention between Patrick and his friends. However, as he already mentioned, he used a GPS and not a range finder as he stated originally. And of course, you already noted the difference between a GPS and a range finder to him.

I stand corrected, his young friends only average 280 yards instead of 300 yards off the tee and somehow can't beat a 10 handicap. . .

Yes my bad as I should not have said range finder. That is just what I have always called it yet there is no laser to your point. As far as them not being able to beat a 10 handicap. A good start for them would be to be able to hit more that 3 fairways in a round. 280 yards is impressive when they are underneath tree's, or in tall prairie grass or  going OB a couple times per round as well.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This is kind of what I was getting at, that several yards variation is possible in the readings because you need to measure the distance of the ball washer or whatever to the actual teeing position. This could have been a point of contention between Patrick and his friends. However, as he already mentioned, he used a GPS and not a range finder as he stated originally. And of course, you already noted the difference between a GPS and a range finder to him.

I stand corrected, his young friends only average 280 yards instead of 300 yards off the tee and somehow can't beat a 10 handicap. . .

Yes my bad as I should not have said range finder. That is just what I have always called it yet there is no laser to your point. As far as them not being able to beat a 10 handicap. A good start for them would be to be able to hit more that 3 fairways in a round. 280 yards is impressive when they are underneath tree's, or in tall prairie grass or  going OB a couple times per round as well.

Some spectacular OBs no doubt. . .

[Natural Patrick]

Some spectacular OBs no doubt. . .

Belly laugh at the 11 handicap expert. Your good no doubt about it, don't let any young person tell you otherwise.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/83727/why-all-the-testosterone/180#post_1183196"]   Some spectacular OBs no doubt. . . [/QUOTE] Belly laugh at the 11 handicap expert. Your good no doubt about it, don't let any young person tell you otherwise.

Far from an expert, but learning as much as I can. . .

[Duff McGee]

I don't really understand the hatred for distance markers on the course. They have always proven to be very accurate for me on most courses. I know this because my shot is very different for my 90, 100, 110, etc. obviously and I can't really remember a time where I've cursed a yardage marker for hitting over a green or 20 yards short of the green. So if you are saying that many of my 300+ yard drives I've hit in my life where I've been able to hit iron on my second shot to the green were not real, then I don't know what to tell you.

[bkuehn1952]

If there was a way to determine how high one hit their golf ball, there would be people posting stats on the altitude of their average shot.  As it is, we are left with distance, swing speed, ball speed, etc... Lost in all the chatter, however,  is that the measuring stick in golf is one's score, or if one really wants to compare scores with others, the differential.  Hitting a 300 yard drive is just the start of a golf hole.  If one can't get the ball in the hole in par or less, the big hit is irrelevant.

It is fun to see a player hit a long accurate tee shot.  If he can't follow that up with solid scoring, it just becomes a random nice shot.

[Lihu]

I don't really understand the hatred for distance markers on the course. They have always proven to be very accurate for me on most courses. I know this because my shot is very different for my 90, 100, 110, etc. obviously and I can't really remember a time where I've cursed a yardage marker for hitting over a green or 20 yards short of the green. So if you are saying that many of my 300+ yard drives I've hit in my life where I've been able to hit iron on my second shot to the green were not real, then I don't know what to tell you.

The yardage markers are exact if you play from where the hole was designed. However, it's rare to be right in the middle of the fairway exactly as the architect designed it. For example, I hit an approach with my 145 yard club because I was about 5 yards past the painted 150 mark on the path. I overhit my mark by 15 yards with all carry as my ball mark was a foot past the ball. Turns out I was only about 135 from the center pin. Calculated from the hole length minus the 145 determined from the marker, I would have hit a 286 yard drive with 145 left to the pin. The reality was that I cut the dogleg hitting only a 267 yard drive with 135 left to the pin which is shorter than the designed hole distance by 29 yards. Some of that might also be from tee box variation. Our yardage markers, probably all in my area, are set by SCGA for tournaments, but you still shouldn't use them to determine distance unless you account for your position relative to the way they measured them.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

We have a 238 yard par 3. I hit driver almost every time unless it is significantly downwind and I get it to pin high (not necessarily on the green) about half the time. The rest are short of that. I have hit it over the green once this year in about 45 attempts and, in that case, it just rolled off the back. I am tracking my scores on the hole this season to see if I score better when I am short or when I get it to pin high (where there is more trouble). I am beginning to think that I should always play the hole with a shorter club, as I score better when I am short of the green complex. Testosterone, indeed.

Originally Posted by Lihu

Play your 8i, right?

Two of them.

[Elmer]

I don't think most even realize how far 250 is, especially compared to what you see from amateur golfers. A well struck 250 yard drive looks pretty good from the tee to me.

in  most the 4somes I play in my league, I am usually the longest.

I find it funny when I crush a ball and everyone in the group admires my drive. We then walk up to my drive and my GPS reads 245!

I don't really understand the hatred for distance markers on the course. They have always proven to be very accurate for me on most courses. I know this because my shot is very different for my 90, 100, 110, etc. obviously and I can't really remember a time where I've cursed a yardage marker for hitting over a green or 20 yards short of the green.

So if you are saying that many of my 300+ yard drives I've hit in my life where I've been able to hit iron on my second shot to the green were not real, then I don't know what to tell you.

I can recall when I first got a GPS I was anti-technology on the course. However at the 3rd hole of my home course my ball was at the 150 yard post. My GPS read 138 to the middle of the green. This dropped me down atleast 1 club, 2 if I wanted to roll it in.

I dont hate distance markers, I just dont trust them.

If there was a way to determine how high one hit their golf ball, there would be people posting stats on the altitude of their average shot.  As it is, we are left with distance, swing speed, ball speed, etc... Lost in all the chatter, however,  is that the measuring stick in golf is one's score, or if one really wants to compare scores with others, the differential.  Hitting a 300 yard drive is just the start of a golf hole.  If one can't get the ball in the hole in par or less, the big hit is irrelevant.

It is fun to see a player hit a long accurate tee shot.  If he can't follow that up with solid scoring, it just becomes a random nice shot.

If there was a way to judge altitude I would be the champ!

I have a 16 degree launch angle, with a 10.5 driver.

I hit the ball sky high and still average 265 (307 was longest).

I have a feeling if I could keep the ball path out of the stratosphere I could get a little more roll!

[ccotenj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave2512

I don't think most even realize how far 250 is, especially compared to what you see from amateur golfers. A well struck 250 yard drive looks pretty good from the tee to me.

We have a 238 yard par 3. I hit driver almost every time unless it is significantly downwind and I get it to pin high (not necessarily on the green) about half the time. The rest are short of that. I have hit it over the green once this year in about 45 attempts and, in that case, it just rolled off the back. I am tracking my scores on the hole this season to see if I score better when I am short or when I get it to pin high (where there is more trouble). I am beginning to think that I should always play the hole with a shorter club, as I score better when I am short of the green complex. Testosterone, indeed.

a course that we occasionally play has a 210 downhill par 3...  the opening to the green looks about 10 feet wide, and left/right/over the green are DEAD...

i have "enough distance" to get it there, no problem...   however, i have never actually hit that green...  i gave up, and lay up with a 6 iron down in front of the green, chip/pitch on and worst i make is 4, with an occasional 3 and 5 mixed in...

a lack of testosterone can sometimes result in better scores...   :)

[Jeremie Boop]

The yardage markers are exact if you play from where the hole was designed. However, it's rare to be right in the middle of the fairway exactly as the architect designed it. For example, I hit an approach with my 145 yard club because I was about 5 yards past the painted 150 mark on the path. I overhit my mark by 15 yards with all carry as my ball mark was a foot past the ball. Turns out I was only about 135 from the center pin. Calculated from the hole length minus the 145 determined from the marker, I would have hit a 286 yard drive with 145 left to the pin. The reality was that I cut the dogleg hitting only a 267 yard drive with 135 left to the pin which is shorter than the designed hole distance by 29 yards. Some of that might also be from tee box variation.

Our yardage markers, probably all in my area, are set by SCGA for tournaments, but you still shouldn't use them to determine distance unless you account for your position relative to the way they measured them.

That is a large reason I used to misunderstand my real drive distances. There are a lot of par 4s that are 340-360 that are actually just over or under 300 if you cut the corner. So I'd hit a good drive and be 60-80 yards out and I'd think I hit a huge drive because I thought the hole length was straight tee to green measurements. It wasn't until I came here that I was told that measurements are down the center of the fairway. That made me feel pretty stupid. That mindset came from those that I played with when I was learning the game, if my second shot was anywhere near a yardage marker they'd say "you hit it "x" yards from the tee" where "x" was card yardage - marker distance. I think this may be something that's somewhat prevalent for casual players too.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

We have a 238 yard par 3. I hit driver almost every time unless it is significantly downwind and I get it to pin high (not necessarily on the green) about half the time. The rest are short of that. I have hit it over the green once this year in about 45 attempts and, in that case, it just rolled off the back. I am tracking my scores on the hole this season to see if I score better when I am short or when I get it to pin high (where there is more trouble). I am beginning to think that I should always play the hole with a shorter club, as I score better when I am short of the green complex. Testosterone, indeed.

Originally Posted by ccotenj

a course that we occasionally play has a 210 downhill par 3...  the opening to the green looks about 10 feet wide, and left/right/over the green are DEAD...

i have "enough distance" to get it there, no problem...   however, i have never actually hit that green...  i gave up, and lay up with a 6 iron down in front of the green, chip/pitch on and worst i make is 4, with an occasional 3 and 5 mixed in...

a lack of testosterone can sometimes result in better scores...   :)

In the 1959 US Open at Winged Foot, there was a long par 3 that was giving everybody fits. Billy Casper decided to lay up short of the green all four rounds and made four pars. He won the Open by one shot.

[Duff McGee]

If there is no danger (or not much danger) to missing left or right on a long par 3, I will always go for it. If there is medium danger, I'll probably still go for it. If it is a nightmare, I will club down maybe one club. In all honesty I will always go for the green on every par 3, what am I talking about? Lol. I will play overly safe though if there is big danger on one side and this usually guarantees at least bogey, unfortunately.

[Dave2512]

The yardage markers are exact if you play from where the hole was designed. However, it's rare to be right in the middle of the fairway exactly as the architect designed it. For example, I hit an approach with my 145 yard club because I was about 5 yards past the painted 150 mark on the path. I overhit my mark by 15 yards with all carry as my ball mark was a foot past the ball. Turns out I was only about 135 from the center pin. Calculated from the hole length minus the 145 determined from the marker, I would have hit a 286 yard drive with 145 left to the pin. The reality was that I cut the dogleg hitting only a 267 yard drive with 135 left to the pin which is shorter than the designed hole distance by 29 yards. Some of that might also be from tee box variation.

Our yardage markers, probably all in my area, are set by SCGA for tournaments, but you still shouldn't use them to determine distance unless you account for your position relative to the way they measured them.

Yes and more than misjudging how far I was hitting shots I was really surprised how inaccurate my guesses were how far it was to the flag once I started using a range finder. I am often outside of the 150 with less than 150 to the flag and inside the 150 with more than 150 depending on where they put it. Our greens are about 30 yards x 30 yards and boxes maybe 20yx15y per tee on average so it can vary quite a bit if markers are up or back and a flag moving around, it's rarely dead center and almost never at where the plaque is on the tee.

[Duff McGee]

Ok so I was at a course the other day where the 18th hole reads 360. I hit a draw with a wicked top spin that actually ended up getting stopped by the cart path curb within a chip shot from the green. I judged it's about 40 yards to the green and the markers basically told me the same thing. It was very dry on the fairways and the ball rolled a mile. Are you guys telling me that this shot was actually not over 300 yards?

[Grumpter]

Ok so I was at a course the other day where the 18th hole reads 360. I hit a draw with a wicked top spin that actually ended up getting stopped by the cart path curb within a chip shot from the green. I judged it's about 40 yards to the green and the markers basically told me the same thing. It was very dry on the fairways and the ball rolled a mile.

Are you guys telling me that this shot was actually not over 300 yards?

Can't say either way. I play multiple courses where a hole is marked 320, 340 or whatever and when I pull it up on the GPS come to find out it is only 270 to 300 yards total (to center of the green).

[phan52]

Ok so I was at a course the other day where the 18th hole reads 360. I hit a draw with a wicked top spin that actually ended up getting stopped by the cart path curb within a chip shot from the green. I judged it's about 40 yards to the green and the markers basically told me the same thing. It was very dry on the fairways and the ball rolled a mile.

Are you guys telling me that this shot was actually not over 300 yards?

It depends. Is the hole uphill? Downhill? is it a dogleg?

We have a 360 yard par 4 that is a dogleg left. The tee box is also about 50 feet above the fairway. There is an opportunity to cut the corner of the dogleg (risky, in that the rough along there is so brutal the only option is a layup) and I always try. I have been as close as 80 yards to that green when I hit it right, but I know there is no way that I hit it 280. Probably more like 245.