The "Stop Conning Yourself" Thread

[uitar9]

I'm 64 and haven't been playing that long. My con is that I can fix more than one thing at a time. Finally, after 6 seasons, I'm starting to remember that more often. This year it was finding the bottom of my swing each time I set up. When I forgot, chunked it. Next fix, getting a little more power into my swing. Hitting it straighter and in the short grass but want more Gir's. Often coming up 5 to 10 yards short on the approach.

Wait, I'm conning myself into thinking I can get those 5 or 10 yards  lol  

[iacas]

[Used to Be a 3]

I was in one of those chain golf stores some weeks back and a florid-faced guy about my age (50s) was looking to be custom fit for a wedge.  This guy did not look athletic, was a good 50 lbs overweight, and just got the feeling he couldn't break 90.  The clerk, with whom I'm acquainted, was talking about wedge distance and casually mentioned that he hit a wedge "140, 145".  The middle-aged guy nodded and said he hit one "135, 140".  I looked over at both and said "You guys hit the ball a ton, I don't get over 120".  As it turns out, I know the young clerk played D1 golf and can definitely get it out there, he wasn't conning himself, but figured the older fellow was just dreaming.  So when they went over to the net to hit balls with the launch analyzer thing, I casually walked nearby to see the fun.  Sure enough the guy was hitting his wedge 100 to 105 with one of those stiff 20 handicap swings.  The numbers didn't lie.  He kept saying "I don't know what's going wrong here!" 

My son asked me why the guy would lie when he knew he was about to be fit and his swing analyzed, it gave me the opportunity to talk about the worst person one can lie to is themselves, because if they do, they'll almost never learn a thing.

[Bucki1968]

I recently conned myself into thinking that I was drinking too often. So I just decided to drink slightly less during the times when I am drinking. Not sure it has had any effect on my golf game, but I sure do feel better!

[phan52]

I need to take more lessons. I take 2-3 per season and, most of the time, they reinforce things that I knew already so I can be conned into thinking more aren't necessary. But my game always improves when I have somebody look critically and objectively at my swing. They almost always find a flaw that is currently hindering my ball-striking.

[Lihu]

12 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

I was in one of those chain golf stores some weeks back and a florid-faced guy about my age (50s) was looking to be custom fit for a wedge.  This guy did not look athletic, was a good 50 lbs overweight, and just got the feeling he couldn't break 90.  The clerk, with whom I'm acquainted, was talking about wedge distance and casually mentioned that he hit a wedge "140, 145".  The middle-aged guy nodded and said he hit one "135, 140".  I looked over at both and said "You guys hit the ball a ton, I don't get over 120".  As it turns out, I know the young clerk played D1 golf and can definitely get it out there, he wasn't conning himself, but figured the older fellow was just dreaming.  So when they went over to the net to hit balls with the launch analyzer thing, I casually walked nearby to see the fun.  Sure enough the guy was hitting his wedge 100 to 105 with one of those stiff 20 handicap swings.  The numbers didn't lie.  He kept saying "I don't know what's going wrong here!" 

My son asked me why the guy would lie when he knew he was about to be fit and his swing analyzed, it gave me the opportunity to talk about the worst person one can lie to is themselves, because if they do, they'll almost never learn a thing.

I don't think it's fair to say he was "lying" about his distances, he just had no idea how far he hits. That's kind of the point of this thread.

A lot of people look at their total distances on the course, the monitor was likely looking at carry distance. If he carries 102 with a low spin and trajectory shot, I'd guess he could possibly be able to hit one or two to 135 total. Also, note that lower swing speeds produce a lot less spin and roll more. Plus, he could have been using a 9i with PW marked on the bottom of the club by TM or Callaway.

Not that I don't believe you can carry 120 with your PW, but you're kind of doing a humble brag that you hit 15 to 20 yards farther than him as well. It's not just a matter of not conning yourself, but also accepting that there are plenty of other good golfers around you and that you might not be that much better than ones you currently look down upon. That attitude will help you improve more than by comparing yourself to less skilled neighbors.

A big eye opener for me was once I started monitoring my swing speed, spin and carry distances on Mevo recently. Very humbling, especially compared to how I thought I was doing. I knew I had bad ball striking, but not this bad. . There are many things I need to work on for sure, and conning myself or comparing myself to my less skilled neighbors will only stifle my improvement.

[Used to Be a 3]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

I don't think it's fair to say he was "lying" about his distances, he just had no idea how far he hits. That's kind of the point of this thread.

A lot of people look at their total distances on the course, the monitor was likely looking at carry distance. If he carries 102 with a low spin and trajectory shot, I'd guess he could possibly be able to hit one or two to 135 total. Also, note that lower swing speeds produce a lot less spin and roll more. Plus, he could have been using a 9i with PW marked on the bottom of the club by TM or Callaway.

Not that I don't believe you can carry 120 with your PW, but you're kind of doing a humble brag that you hit 15 to 20 yards farther than him as well. It's not just a matter of not conning yourself, but also accepting that there are plenty of other good golfers around you and that you might not be that much better than ones you currently look down upon. That attitude will help you improve more than by comparing yourself to less skilled neighbors.

1

I can hit a wedge 120, no humble brag there, and it's not even a brag, who the heck brags about hitting a club a perfectly average distance that probably 80% of all middling handicappers can hit it?  I'm actually a short hitter considering I used to be a low single digit handicap, when playing people of similar handicap, I got used to others just bombing the ball by me. 

Am not really comparing my game to his, don't really care, don't know the guy.  I am, however, comparing my realism about my game and distances to his realism--for example, I do not believe in any way that the guy had any good reason to think he could hit a wedge 135, 140.  It's not like anyone gets a 30+ yard rollout on a wedge.  He was dreaming or bragging or both.  You don't miss it that far, not with that club that you use so much. 

I am very realistic about swing and distances, and in fact on the member swing thread have been trying to convince people who are telling me "powerful swing, dude..nice lag, etc" that I don't produce much consistent power at all on the course and that swing videos are evidently deceiving, that I am not a consistent long knock at all even though I sure wish I was.  I might be a pompous ass and a general curmudgeon, but I am not living in a dreamland when it comes to my golf abilities.  Just sayin.

[mcanadiens]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

A lot of people look at their total distances on the course, the monitor was likely looking at carry distance.

Yep. 

The one time I hit off a monitor it was a truly humbling experience. 

[GolfLug]

IMO, we con ourselves that we are somewhere in between what we demonstrate 95% (suck) of the time and 5% (kick ass). The rogue mystique of golf makes sure that we will never be completely 100% self aware, or if so, only fleetingly.

I would imagine when you suck 95% of the time, having a con-free self awareness can't be too sexy anyway..

 

[Used to Be a 3]

21 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Yep. 

The one time I hit off a monitor it was a truly humbling experience. 

When I hit on a monitor, which I've done a few times since I took the game up again a few months ago, it's just the danged truth that I see on the course: erratic as heck, game's a dumpster fire: one drive of 215, next time 275, slices, hooks, everything in between--and no clue what's going to happen from moment to moment.  It's already happening on the course where 80% of my scores are absolute garbage, I'm used to it, nothing new.  Now there's realism.

Now for the ways in which I con myself: I imagine that I should be playing as well after a 20+ year layoff in my 50s as I once was in my 20s when in practice and sporting a flat stomach.  Otherwise, wouldn't be calling my ball striking "garbage", would be glad to just be playing.  So there's how I'm conning myself.  Not a 3 anymore, and likely never will be...and what's the big deal about being low single digits anyway?  It's nothing special, not like even at my long ago peak anyone would've considered me serious competition at the state am, really good golfers schooled me even at my best.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Used to Be a 3

[BaconNEggs]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

I don't think it's fair to say he was "lying" about his distances, he just had no idea how far he hits. That's kind of the point of this thread.

I don't know, 140 to 100 is a huge difference. I can see how someone could think they drive it 250 when they really only hit it 220... but I can't see 140 down to 100. I thought I hit my 56* wedge about 105 on a really good strike. More typically, just under 100. It looked in the vicinity of 100 yards, and, well, it was right around the 100 yard sign. Then I got a laser, and turns out the 100 yard sign was really 95 yards from where I would hit, so I was typically more like mid 90s, occasionally putting one around 100 yards.

But 140... that's comparatively WAY out there. Imagine rolling up to your ball, 140 out, hitting a solid strike, and only making it 2/3rds of the way there (or worse). Every time. Unless you skulled it, you'd never reach a green.

[Lihu]

42 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Yep. 

The one time I hit off a monitor it was a truly humbling experience. 

Most people have this experience.

 

32 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

IMO, we con ourselves that we are somewhere in between what we demonstrate 95% (suck) of the time and 5% (kick ass). The rogue mystique of golf makes sure that we will never be completely 100% self aware, or if so, only fleetingly.

I would imagine when you suck 95% of the time, having a con-free self awareness can't be too sexy anyway..

True, thinking otherwise is kind of con. 

 

1 hour ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

Am not really comparing my game to his, don't really care, don't know the guy.  I am, however, comparing my realism about my game and distances to his realism--for example, I do not believe in any way that the guy had any good reason to think he could hit a wedge 135, 140.  It's not like anyone gets a 30+ yard rollout on a wedge.  He was dreaming or bragging or both.  You don't miss it that far, not with that club that you use so much. 

I am very realistic about swing and distances, and in fact on the member swing thread have been trying to convince people who are telling me "powerful swing, dude..nice lag, etc" that I don't produce much consistent power at all on the course and that swing videos are evidently deceiving, that I am not a consistent long knock at all even though I sure wish I was.  I might be a pompous ass and a general curmudgeon, but I am not living in a dreamland when it comes to my golf abilities.  Just sayin.

Possibly, but that's in your words.

My point was that you were putting down someone you didn't know on this site because you stated that "This guy did not look athletic, was a good 50 lbs overweight, and just got the feeling he couldn't break 90."

My response was of course you know your distances better than him, because you "Used to be a 3". 

 

4 minutes ago, BaconNEggs said:

I don't know, 140 to 100 is a huge difference. I can see how someone could think they drive it 250 when they really only hit it 220... but I can't see 140 down to 100. I thought I hit my 56* wedge about 105 on a really good strike. More typically, just under 100. It looked in the vicinity of 100 yards, and, well, it was right around the 100 yard sign. Then I got a laser, and turns out the 100 yard sign was really 95 yards from where I would hit, so I was typically more like mid 90s, occasionally putting one around 100 yards.

But 140... that's comparatively WAY out there. Imagine rolling up to your ball, 140 out, hitting a solid strike, and only making it 2/3rds of the way there (or worse). Every time. Unless you skulled it, you'd never reach a green.

He said 135 to 140, but yeah, a 135 to 140 carry is pretty impressive. However, I've seen enough people hit low flyers to the front fringe of a green centered at 135 or even 140 with their PW and think that's the norm and that that was a 140 yard shot.

In reality it was likely 120 yards and only once in a blue moon.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Lihu

[Used to Be a 3]

8 hours ago, Lihu said:

Possibly, but that's in your words.

My point was that you were putting down someone you didn't know on this site because you stated that "This guy did not look athletic, was a good 50 lbs overweight, and just got the feeling he couldn't break 90."

My response was of course you know your distances better than him, because you "Used to be a 3". 

 

You know, Lihu, I don't know why you're getting all aggressive here .  All over a guy I saw one time in an Edwin Watts for a few minutes who was, in fact, being way, way unrealistic about his abilities.  It's not like I called out the guy in front of his wife and kids, mocked him to his face, or slit his car tires in the parking lot after I bought my dozen golf balls and checked out.  Heck, man, I only used the guy as an illustration of being unrealistic about golf distances, and I dare say, oh call me crazy, thinking you can smoke a wedge out there 140, which is pretty close to the average for the bloody PGA tour, is perhaps being a mite unrealistic when you have a swing that clearly indicates you don't break 90 and you hit it 40 yards less than you represent.

Dang, man, are you that guy or something?  Is there some back story I don't know about?  Because this is just weird.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Used to Be a 3

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

You know, Lihu, I don't know why you're getting all aggressive here .  All over a guy I saw one time in an Edwin Watts for a few minutes who was, in fact, being way, way unrealistic about his abilities.  It's not like I called out the guy in front of his wife and kids, mocked him to his face, or slit his car tires in the parking lot after I bought my dozen golf balls and checked out.  Heck, man, I only used the guy as an illustration of being unrealistic about golf distances, and I dare say, oh call me crazy, thinking you can smoke a wedge out there 140, which is pretty close to the average for the bloody PGA tour, is perhaps being a mite unrealistic when you have a swing that clearly indicates you don't break 90 and you hit it 40 yards less than you represent.

Dang, man, are you that guy or something?  Is there some back story I don't know about?  Because this is just weird.

Not really, I was just thinking that the purpose of this thread is to bring up our own shortcomings and not for making judgemental comments about others. It's easier to criticize other people rather than ourselves.

I'm certainly in need of not "conning myself" and in need of a constant reminder to be more humble as well, and am finally admitting to personal faults that inhibited my ability to improve. I think that's the purpose of this thread?

Edited January 20, 2018 by Lihu

[Used to Be a 3]

18 hours ago, Lihu said:

Not really, I was just thinking that the purpose of this thread is to bring up our own shortcomings and not for making judgemental comments about others. It's easier to criticize other people rather than ourselves.

I'm certainly in need of not "conning myself" and in need of a constant reminder to be more humble as well, and am finally admitting to personal faults that inhibited my ability to improve. I think that's the purpose of this thread?

If you look at all my posts here (and it wouldn't take long, haven't been here long), I think the term "self flagellation" would be more appropriate than lack of humility.  If you go back and look at the post I made about the fellow who was overestimating his wedge yardage by nearly 40 yards, you'll also see me describing a young, fit golfer who could rip the ball and hit a wedge a good 25 yards farther than me.  But in your mind I was only comparing myself to the short knocker.  Truth is in that first post I wasn't comparing myself to anybody at all.  That was your angle.  When you scold people like that, really just make up reasons to do it, it kind of makes you a bit less of a pleasure to converse with.  But maybe that's just the way you roll--or maybe you just had a bad day.  I don't know, don't know you.  

Edited January 21, 2018 by Used to Be a 3

[JonMA1]

8 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

I made about the fellow who was overestimating his wedge yardage by nearly 40 yards, you'll also see me describing a young, fit golfer who could rip the ball and hit a wedge a good 25 yards farther than me.

I thought your post was a perfect example of what this topic is all about.

We've all been there. It usually starts with someone new to the game estimating his drives averaging "about 300 yards", or those who don't really keep score - or give themselves several mulligans - claiming they usually shoot a "couple strokes over par".

I think people really believe what they claim.

While I've never made either of the claims above, I was a bit surprised at how short I was driving the ball once I started using GPS, and I thought the game would be easier to learn than it is.

[Phil McGleno]

@Used to Be a 3-Just ignore @Lihu-He is overly sensitive to the idea of conning oneself as he has done it many times in the past. And he often misunderstands the point someone is making.-But he is otherwise an okay guy.

[Lihu]

16 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

If you look at all my posts here (and it wouldn't take long, haven't been here long), I think the term "self flagellation" would be more appropriate than lack of humility.  If you go back and look at the post I made about the fellow who was overestimating his wedge yardage by nearly 40 yards, you'll also see me describing a young, fit golfer who could rip the ball and hit a wedge a good 25 yards farther than me.  But in your mind I was only comparing myself to the short knocker.  Truth is in that first post I wasn't comparing myself to anybody at all.  That was your angle.  When you scold people like that, really just make up reasons to do it, it kind of makes you a bit less of a pleasure to converse with.  But maybe that's just the way you roll--or maybe you just had a bad day.  I don't know, don't know you.  

Yeah, got it. I can’t really read your mind as well, but my intentions were not to put you down either. Golf is so hard, I don’t really see any good in putting anyone down, and give them the maximum benefit of the doubt. Whatever I say is to try to encourage people to play more and feel good about themselves playing this sport.

If someone says they can do something I don’t find sadistic pleasure in putting them down, I’d rather help them accomplish their goals.

That being said, most beginners don’t understand how hard is this game and are generally the most frustrated. Don’t know how to encourage them?

 

7 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

@Used to Be a 3-Just ignore @Lihu-He is overly sensitive to the idea of conning oneself as he has done it many times in the past. And he often misunderstands the point someone is making.-But he is otherwise an okay guy.

Just misunderstood, apparently