The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[pumaAttack]

"4:15 about right for decades"

Funny how the biggest complaint in golf is slow w/ the gold standard max time set at 4:15. You celebrate the 4:15 round like it something to be proud of. While you strive for mediocrity the majority of others behind you would like to play in 4 hours or less.

Just because you "can" drive slow in the left lane in some states while traffic backs up behind you, doesn't mean you should do it.

You know those times are all relative, right?

Just because you can play a round in 3:45 does not mean everybody can.

The length of the course, the walking distance between holes, the terrain, the overall crowdedness of the course all come into play.

One person saying they can play a round in 3 hours does not mean and should not mean everybody can do that too on their local course.

[RGoosen]

I think a cart slows things down if it is cart path only, but I can play every bit as fast with a cart. Saturday morning we went out as a twosome 1st tee time of the day 6:45 am. I took a cart and he carried his bad. I found myself waiting on the other guy several times and I doubt he had to wait on me once.

[pumaAttack]

I think a cart slows things down if it is cart path only, but I can play every bit as fast with a cart.

Saturday morning we went out as a twosome 1st tee time of the day 6:45 am. I took a cart and he carried his bad. I found myself waiting on the other guy several times and I doubt he had to wait on me once.

Sure, a cart with one person is faster than walking...

I mean the cart with two people, who have to wait on each others shots and often have to run back to the cart to get their wedge or putter.

How many times have you seen 4 carts for a foursome?

[nevets88]

Would be interesting mapping out average weekend round times by region. My neck of the woods would definitely be 5+. I'd bet there are areas in Florida would be significantly less. Of course low density areas will be less while high density more. You have your nuances to distinguish - private, resort, public, etc...

[RGoosen]

I agree this is the case sometimes. If the two players in the same cart are of similar abilities then you can park b/w balls so each player can hit in sequence without much delay. If the two players are hitting nowhere near similar distance then you are correct that the delay in shots would potentially slow the group down.

[DeadMan]

You know those times are all relative, right?

Just because you can play a round in 3:45 does not mean everybody can.

The length of the course, the walking distance between holes, the terrain, the overall crowdedness of the course all come into play.

One person saying they can play a round in 3 hours does not mean and should not mean everybody can do that too on their local course.

I think everybody can play a round 3:45 on any course. I think there's a lot of people out there who don't care what their pace is or don't want to play that fast. And that's the problem. I don't think playing in under 4 hours as a foursome is difficult at all, if you're not waiting on others.

[pumaAttack]

Would be interesting mapping out average weekend round times by region. My neck of the woods would definitely be 5+. I'd bet there are areas in Florida would be significantly less. Of course low density areas will be less while high density more. You have your nuances to distinguish - private, resort, public, etc...

Yeah, it has to vary quite a bit by region and course type.  You can not blanket the entire nation/world with a stand of 4 hours or whatever.

I agree this is the case sometimes. If the two players in the same cart are of similar abilities then you can park b/w balls so each player can hit in sequence without much delay. If the two players are hitting nowhere near similar distance then you are correct that the delay in shots would potentially slow the group down.

Two players who are hitting very similar shots, sure that will be faster.

The problem is that hardly anybody hits the same shots as their playing partner over and over.  And if you leave your partner at his ball and walk to your ball, you could have to come back to grab another club if the shot is drastically different than you expected.

[pumaAttack]

I think everybody can play a round 3:45 on any course. I think there's a lot of people out there who don't care what their pace is or don't want to play that fast. And that's the problem. I don't think playing in under 4 hours as a foursome is difficult at all, if you're not waiting on others.

Ha, ok buddy.

Yes everybody is playing the same course with the same walking conditions.  Hell, why are you playing so slow.  I bet you could get it done in under 3:30 at any course.

[DaveP043]

Sure, a cart with one person is faster than walking...

I mean the cart with two people, who have to wait on each others shots and often have to run back to the cart to get their wedge or putter.

THIS is one of the specific issues with slow players.  They do NOT have to wait on each other's shots.  They choose to wait and watch, and then drive to their own ball, when they should be out of the cart and on the way to their own ball.  They should NOT have to run back to the cart often, they should pay attention to yardage indicators and take 2 or 3 or even 4 clubs with them.  Two players in a cart CAN be reasonably quick, if they're not lazy, and if they learn what to do, and then DO it.  I understand there are a few people with physical issues that can't walk very far, but the vast majority of players in carts can certainly walk 40 or 50 yards with 3 clubs without too much strain.

Its the guy who walks 30 yards with only his laser, then walks back to get a club, then walks again to his ball to hit.  If you take one club, you have a chance to have the right one.  If you take 2 or 3 clubs, you're almost certain to have the right one.  If you walk away from the cart with NO clubs, you're guaranteed NOT to have the right one.

[Jon Hoover]

I can play much much faster if I walk versus a cart.

A cart really slows down play, unless there is large gaps between holes.

I don't understand how that would make any sense you can cover way more ground in a cart and all you have to do is understand how to play ready golf, for example if your chipping you would bring your putter and 1-2 clubs you should never have to be walking back to the cart until your ball is holed. I play in carts exclusively and average time is 3:30 for a foursome, 2 some is more like 3hrs, one time a couple weeks ago it was getting late we played the back nine in 1 hour from 6-7 sprinklers go on at 7 as a 2 some in a cart.

[dkolo]

Last time I played, it was a randomly light day. I was walking and there were two carts in our group. Normally, this course has rounds upwards of 5 hours and it's no problem walking, even with the hills. By the end of the 3rd hole, we were moving really fast though, and I knew the hills would kill me at that pace, so after I hit the par 5 in two (hell yeah), I threw my bag on my brother's cart and took the push cart I borrowed from him (mine's broken) back to the car and made it back before they were even on the green. Missed the eagle, but got the birdie. Anyway, the whole round took only 3:30 and it was a revelation of enjoyment. Didn't feel rushed in the least. Also played at a new course where we were a two between 4somes and it was still a very leisurely 4 hour round. Going back to 5-6 hour rounds is going to be rough.

[DeadMan]

Ha, ok buddy.

Yes everybody is playing the same course with the same walking conditions.  Hell, why are you playing so slow.  I bet you could get it done in under 3:30 at any course.

I'm not your buddy, pal.

I don't think it's that hard to play in under 4 hours as a foursome. Play ready golf, don't take forever over your ball, and do little things correctly (like where to leave your bag/cart, hitting before you help search for a lost ball, etc.). Done. It's really not that hard. Of course, if you're waiting on the group in front of you, that makes it hard. But if you think, with an open course, playing in under 4 hours is a pipe dream, you are part of the problem.

[Jon Hoover]

Last time I played, it was a randomly light day. I was walking and there were two carts in our group. Normally, this course has rounds upwards of 5 hours and it's no problem walking, even with the hills. By the end of the 3rd hole, we were moving really fast though, and I knew the hills would kill me at that pace, so after I hit the par 5 in two (hell yeah), I threw my bag on my brother's cart and took the push cart I borrowed from him (mine's broken) back to the car and made it back before they were even on the green. Missed the eagle, but got the birdie. Anyway, the whole round took only 3:30 and it was a revelation of enjoyment. Didn't feel rushed in the least. Also played at a new course where we were a two between 4somes and it was still a very leisurely 4 hour round. Going back to 5-6 hour rounds is going to be rough.

No one should ever have to play 5-6 hour rounds...

I'm not your buddy, pal.

[mvmac]

A cart really slows down play, unless there is large gaps between holes.

That doesn't make any sense, carts are faster than walking.

Two players who are hitting very similar shots, sure that will be faster.

The problem is that hardly anybody hits the same shots as their playing partner over and over.  And if you leave your partner at his ball and walk to your ball, you could have to come back to grab another club if the shot is drastically different than you expected.

Then they don't know how to play ready golf (read @DaveP043 's post). That's not how the guys at my club or how @iacas and I play when we're in a cart. You walk to your ball with a couple clubs and your rangefinder while the other player is getting ready or playing their shot. They don't have to be hitting similar shots.

THIS is one of the specific issues with slow players.  They do NOT have to wait on each other's shots.  They choose to wait and watch, and then drive to their own ball, when they should be out of the cart and on the way to their own ball.  They should NOT have to run back to the cart often, they should pay attention to yardage indicators and take 2 or 3 or even 4 clubs with them.  Two players in a cart CAN be reasonably quick, if they're not lazy, and if they learn what to do, and then DO it.  I understand there are a few people with physical issues that can't walk very far, but the vast majority of players in carts can certainly walk 40 or 50 yards with 3 clubs without too much strain.

Its the guy who walks 30 yards with only his laser, then walks back to get a club, then walks again to his ball to hit.  If you take one club, you have a chance to have the right one.  If you take 2 or 3 clubs, you're almost certain to have the right one.  If you walk away from the cart with NO clubs, you're guaranteed NOT to have the right one.

Agree, good post.

[MrFlipper]

THIS is one of the specific issues with slow players.  They do NOT have to wait on each other's shots.  They choose to wait and watch, and then drive to their own ball, when they should be out of the cart and on the way to their own ball.  They should NOT have to run back to the cart often, they should pay attention to yardage indicators and take 2 or 3 or even 4 clubs with them.  Two players in a cart CAN be reasonably quick, if they're not lazy, and if they learn what to do, and then DO it.  I understand there are a few people with physical issues that can't walk very far, but the vast majority of players in carts can certainly walk 40 or 50 yards with 3 clubs without too much strain.

Its the guy who walks 30 yards with only his laser, then walks back to get a club, then walks again to his ball to hit.  If you take one club, you have a chance to have the right one.  If you take 2 or 3 clubs, you're almost certain to have the right one.  If you walk away from the cart with NO clubs, you're guaranteed NOT to have the right one.

Funny you mention this, I'm not a GPS/laser guy, but most of the time these things slow play down. Drives me crazy.

Guy gets laser out of bag, takes out of case, puts case down on seat, walks to ball or tee, lasers (twice to get it right), states XXX yards to pin for all to hear (sometimes wrong, and not helpful because who in their right mind always shoots for the pin), walks back, gets case and puts laser back into the case, puts case back in cart. So we're 30 seconds into it, he hasn't pulled a club yet.

GPS/Lasers speed up play? Maybe for some, but to me much of the time its another toy for people to dawdle with. Arrrggghhh.

Once again, slow people find a way to play slower, just when you didn't think it possible. You fast guys with GPS, no problem! Unfortunately, there aren't many of you.

[pumaAttack]

I'm not your buddy, pal.

I don't think it's that hard to play in under 4 hours as a foursome. Play ready golf, don't take forever over your ball, and do little things correctly (like where to leave your bag/cart, hitting before you help search for a lost ball, etc.). Done. It's really not that hard. Of course, if you're waiting on the group in front of you, that makes it hard. But if you think, with an open course, playing in under 4 hours is a pipe dream, you are part of the problem.

I play ready golf and walk the course.  I put my bag near the next hole, I write down my score when others are teeing off.

You are delusional if you think under 4 hours is possible for a foursome on a public course.  On a private course, sure.

[pumaAttack]

That doesn't make any sense, carts are faster than walking.

Then they don't know how to play ready golf (read @DaveP043's post). That's not how the guys at my club or how @iacas and I play when we're in a cart. You walk to your ball with a couple clubs and your rangefinder while the other player is getting ready or playing their shot. They don't have to be hitting similar shots.

Agree, good post.

Cart are faster in a straight line, sure.  But they are not faster when you have to park it 40 yards from the green and walk back to your ball.  I can carry my clubs right up next to each shot and have all my clubs available if I decide to punch out instead, or whatever.

Bolded, that is the biggest issue.

Are you playing at a private course?  Then no kidding you can play faster than at a muni.

And just because you can play faster does not mean the course conditions allow it.  I have played nine holes in under 1:15 when the course was open.  The problem is other people on the course.

[Psyber]

Jon, how many rounds under 4 hours do you play on county courses here in S FL in the winter?