The Definitive Pace of Play Thread

[newtogolf]

I usually play in a foursome and we average 4 hours a round.  Seems the two topics people get most passionate about here are pace of play and playing by the ROG, even though they sometimes work against each other.  

The rules of golf allows 5 minutes for someone to find their ball which is compounded with the number of amateurs that play Pro V1 balls and don't want to walk away from a $5 ball without looking.  

The last few days we have had a lot of wind here on Long Island which was causing havoc with golf balls.  We wasted a lot of time looking for balls that were in rough that was allowed to grow so long and thick that it was very difficult to spot a golf ball in it.  

Pro's miss fairways, amateurs miss even more so while it's great courses put up clocks and have a marshal ride around to enforce pace of play the courses could help the cause by making sure their courses are optimized for pace of play as well.  

[Lihu]

42 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

almost 6 hours on Sunday.  I was playing with neighbors whom I haven't played before.  I was playing badly hit a lot OB, so were they.  I play cheap balls so when I do that I can look, then drop quickly.  It seemed they were maxing out the 5 min rule on every hole.  Plus doing Keegan Bradley impressions for every shot to shoot 100 and 110 respectively.  

Thanks for not taking stroke and distance on all those OB. That definitely speeds up play even though not quite according to the rules. You can take provisionals as well in the future, and that shouldn't impact pace of play as much either.

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

The rules of golf allows 5 minutes for someone to find their ball which is compounded with the number of amateurs that play Pro V1 balls and don't want to walk away from a $5 ball without looking.  

By used for $1.

[iacas]

15 hours ago, CR McDivot said:

If you don't have enough time to play a reasonably paced round...

STAY HOME, or find a less time consuming game. I suggest PingPong!

The problem, IIRC from another thread, is that your definition of "reasonable" is slower than many people's. Coupled with your somewhat obnoxious attitude (I removed the "Kiss My Ass" smiley, and the generalization/judgment below… and, yeah, we disagree on this.

14 hours ago, CR McDivot said:

Fire it up, pal. Burn up the course as you do the rest of your hectic life.

We will likely outlive you!

 

[colin007]

18 hours ago, CR McDivot said:

Interesting indeed...

Fivesomes are not allowed on any course we play. I presume you play a private course?

The single (in a cart) was 2 holes behind when the group in front of us left at #9. As we teed on #13 he was parking next to the #12 green... we suggested to him to come on through.

Just under 4:00 IS reasonable for a couple of seniors on a 6500 yrd course walking, especially when there is no one behind the hotshot single (whom WE asked to come through). Figured we would rather have a round at our pace than be rushed.

Fire it up, pal. Burn up the course as you do the rest of your hectic life.

We will likely outlive you!

Sorry dude, but you ARE A SLOW PLAYER. No other way to put it. 4 hours is slow for a foursome, even, and it's a death slog for a twosome. 

Also, you guys should've probably moved up a set of tees or three.

[newtogolf]

21 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Sorry dude, but you ARE A SLOW PLAYER. No other way to put it. 4 hours is slow for a foursome, even, and it's a death slog for a twosome. 

Also, you guys should've probably moved up a set of tees or three.

4 hours is not slow for a foursome of mid - high handicappers.  

[colin007]

3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

4 hours is not slow for a foursome of mid - high handicappers.  

Yes it is. I'm just being honest. If it takes your foursome 4 hours - not because of groups in front of you - then you guys are slow. Period.

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Yes it is. I'm just being honest. If it takes your foursome 4 hours - not because of groups in front of you - then you guys are slow. Period.

I'm not sure what you consider a reasonable pace then because 3:45 - 4:00 is quite reasonable to most people i speak to. 

[Fourputt]

4 hours ago, colin007 said:

Yes it is. I'm just being honest. If it takes your foursome 4 hours - not because of groups in front of you - then you guys are slow. Period.

No you are quite wrong, or you only play courses with no trouble on them.  While McDivot is wrong one way, you are taking the extreme the other way.  

I played today in a foursome (2 walking and 2 riding, all seniors), and we played in 4:05.  We waited a bit and we even fell back a couple of times, but always caught back up.  The course was full in front of us and behind us, but there was never a significant gap on either side.  We were never behind the course pace, even on the first 2 holes where we had a couple of lost balls.  Left to ourselves, we would have likely finished in a hair under 4 hours.  

You can play at a good pace without needing to rush - sensible people don't play speed golf, but they also don't saunter around the course picking their noses and scratching their asses, just assuming that the rest of the world wants the hassle and stress of having to play through them.  Either one is equally poor etiquette when it disrupts others on the course who are playing at a reasonable speed as determined by the course management.

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, colin007 said:

Yes it is. I'm just being honest. If it takes your foursome 4 hours - not because of groups in front of you - then you guys are slow. Period.

I have to disagree as well. For a foursome of mid HC, four hours is a good time. My retired buddies and I walk and we'll do four hours unless someone is holding us up.  Unless you play on a really easy course, that time is not slow.

[RH31]

The thread question does ask "typically" how long. I know I've been out there some days when it seems like we're looking for balls in the rough, under leaves, in the woods all day long. It's not unusual for those rounds to be 20-30 minutes longer. 

[Dave2512]

Four hours is common when the course is full. That's a litlle over 13 minutes a hole for four golfers to complete a hole, stop at the turn, use the head etc. 

[Lihu]

17 hours ago, newtogolf said:

4 hours is not slow for a foursome of mid - high handicappers.  

4 hours is 25% slower than all the mid cappers I know, and that's playing from other fairways lateral and OB hazards and all. Most of the time, it's knowing where to look for your ball, and mid handicaps generally know where to look.

For high handicaps, it all depends upon why they are high. I know seniors who could walk a 7400 yard course playing from 6400 yards in 3.5 hours as well. They're usually the 4 old guys waiting at every tee box then hit the fairway followed by closer shot to the green or on it. It's like they walk in a straight line then hit then walk in a straight line again. . .

Slow play is usually from people who meander the fairways not playing ready golf, and take too long to putt. The entire courses are almost always backed up behind some foursome or even a twosome thinking they are playing at a reasonable pace.

[Dave2512]

But 4 hrs is about what it takes to get around a full course. Can golf be played faster you bet. But only so much you can do when there are people finishing on the green as you prepare for your second shot and they are right behind the group in front of them. A well managed course has starters getting people off the 1st tee just as the group ahead clears typical drive range. As the day progresses ideally that pace is maintained.

Tee sheets are typically 8-10 minutes between times and it rarely ever happens everyone gets out at exactly that interval someone is going to duff it. That gets extended when golfers get to a hole that takes longer than that to complete (par 5's are usually 12-15 minutes). To play faster than estimated POP requires open space and often it's just not there. Handicap doesn't matter, if you can't play a shot because somebody is ahead it is what it is.

The only time skill figures into it is when balls are out of position and a search ensues. When that happens it's the responsibility of the golfer to take measures to keep up. A lot of that can be prevented playing smart. For example (IMO) people don't search overly long for potentially lost balls because they are worried about losing a $4 ball. It's because they were dumb and didn't play a provisional and they're F'd unless they find it because they can't go back and stack up the course, the group behind is already waiting on them. They don't want a funky hole score and they paid to play so few will just sit it out so they kick through weeds hoping until finally tossing a ball down and making up a way to mark the card.

[Lihu]

4 hours is reasonable for the actual time you are on the course, but every foursome should be capable of playing at a 3 to 3.5 hour rate or faster. This is so that the course can be played in or at 4 hours.

[newtogolf]

24 minutes ago, Lihu said:

4 hours is reasonable for the actual time you are on the course, but every foursome should be capable of playing at a 3 to 3.5 hour rate or faster. This is so that the course can be played in or at 4 hours.

I'm not sure what this means?  I'm no going to race around a course to appease some of you that want to play speed golf.  I play at the posted speeds, I don't take more time than I have to nor do I push people in front of me if they are playing at a reasonable pace.  If there's room in front of my group (which there usually isn't) I'll happily allow you to play through but I'm not going to ruin my round.  

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I'm not sure what this means?  I'm no going to race around a course to appease some of you that want to play speed golf.  I play at the posted speeds, I don't take more time than I have to nor do I push people in front of me if they are playing at a reasonable pace.  If there's room in front of my group (which there usually isn't) I'll happily allow you to play through but I'm not going to ruin my round.  

I guess I could have given an example, for those who need it?

Let's say the posted speed limit is 65mph, and your car only goes 55mph. That car can never go the full limit and will slow down cars behind it. If that me car could go 75 mph, it will always be able to go the speed limit.

So, having the capability to play at a 3 hour pace given no obstructions means you will be able to keep up with a 4 hour pace.

BTW, a 3 hour pace for a foursome is really just a no frills ready golf pace without rushing or anthing. As a twosome, my partners and I have played 18 holes in random order in under 2.75 hours without rushing. If we were to play super fast I think we could possibly break 1.5 to 2 hours with a cart. That would be just hit and go, and putt and go without waiting at all.

[Dave2512]

I have never seen a course with a posted POP of less than 3:50ish. Even if POP is the minimum speed limit it's not realistic to think a full course, call it 130-140 golfers out there, can complete every hole in 10-11 minutes. Someone is going to hit a bad shot (more like lots of bad shots) people have to pee, the bev cart is going to stop movement forward. It's not a matter of can it be done, it can it's not a good expectation for a busy course. 

This is a good read.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-real-cause-of-slow-play-is

Quote

The average round of golf in America takes 4 hours, 17 minutes, according to Lucius Riccio, Ph.D., who analyzed 40,460 rounds. The average time of dewsweepers, or the first group out, is 3:46.

The only statistically significant variable is how busy a course is. Golfers move like cars on the interstate. Rush hour is bad.

 

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I have never seen a course with a posted POP of less than 3:50ish. Even if POP is the minimum speed limit it's not realistic to think a full course, call it 130-140 golfers out there, can complete every hole in 10-11 minutes. Someone is going to hit a bad shot (more like lots of bad shots) people have to pee, the bev cart is going to stop movement forward. It's not a matter of can it be done, it can it's not a good expectation for a busy course. 

This is a good read.

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-real-cause-of-slow-play-is

 

Sure, but if they can keep pace there shouldn't be any slow downs. It only takes one slow party to bunch up everyone.