Solheim Cup Controversy: Who is more at fault?

[jcjim]

I think Pettersen's been"encouraged" to post that apology.

So what if she had been encouraged. it was a 18 inch putt. There's no other outcome.

I frankly believe Lee heard something and I believe pettersen would do anything to win

a point. Euros are something else.

[Silent]

[geezer]

Why the secrecy?

If that was true, that would have been THE FIRST thing that Petterson should have said in defense of herself when asked about it after the round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Any links?

I think that's something we would have heard about.

Just saying what I've heard. I've not seen any'official' source yet, but have seen 3 or 4 independent mentions of this. Can't have come from nowhere. Unfortunately I didn't see the entire round live, but maybe it was picked up in the live broadcast?

Regarding whether it 'should' have been given or not, it's worth noting that the concession of a putt is entirely at the discretion of ones competitor(s). If you and i are engaged in a matchplay situation I can give you a 40 foot putt, and then make you putt a 2" one the next hole. There is no 'should'.

It's quite a common tactic to give your opponent 2' putts all day till you get down to the last couple of holes and it's tight, then make them putt one when they haven't had a look at a short putt all day.

[jcjim]

The Golf Channel just replayed the putt...As soon as Lee missed the putt, Pettersen and the caddies immediatly turned and walked off the frindge of the greeen. Lee picked up the ball

Now as seen on the replay how did Pettersen and the caddies know Lee picked up the putt if they were walking "with their backs turned away from the green and heading to the next tee?

I believe Pettersen simply lied about no one gave the consent.

[Golfingdad]

Regarding whether it 'should' have been given or not, it's worth noting that the concession of a putt is entirely at the discretion of ones competitor(s). If you and i are engaged in a matchplay situation I can give you a 40 foot putt, and then make you putt a 2" one the next hole. There is no 'should'.

It's quite a common tactic to give your opponent 2' putts all day till you get down to the last couple of holes and it's tight, then make them putt one when they haven't had a look at a short putt all day.

Again .... links?  Where did you "hear mention of this?"  If you don't have any info other than "your brothers fiances brothers cousins dads dogs sister" then ... you don't have ANY info.

The Golf Channel just replayed the putt...As soon as Lee missed the putt, Pettersen and the caddies immediatly turned and walked off the frindge of the greeen. Lee picked up the ball

Now as seen on the replay how did Pettersen and the caddies know Lee picked up the putt if they were walking "with their backs turned away from the green and heading to the next tee?

I believe Pettersen simply lied about no one gave the consent.

You're mistaken.  That is Hull and the two caddies, not Petterson.

[geezer]

Again .... links?  Where did you "hear mention of this?"  If you don't have any info other than "your brothers fiances brothers cousins dads dogs sister" then ... you don't have ANY info.

And again, it's just what I've heard said. I never claimed to have any info, or to be 'in the know'.

In other words, no, I'm not going to go trawling through every article, comment and forum post I've read over the last 3 days to provide a link.

[mvmac]

And again, it's just what I've heard said. I never claimed to have any info, or to be 'in the know'.

In other words, no, I'm not going to go trawling through every article, comment and forum post I've read over the last 3 days to provide a link.

You heard it on the TV coverage? On Golf Channel?

[Zeph]

Many articles mention it, but I've not found any that got more evidence than "it was inferred" or "reportedly".

http://www.punditarena.com/golf/ckelleher/controversy-casts-dark-cloud-over-solheim-cup/

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/pettersen-turns-solheim-cup-into-ugly-tizzy-1.363475

http://practical-golf.com/solheim-cup-controversy-golf-should-be-above-this/

[Golfingdad]

Many articles mention it, but I've not found any that got more evidence than "it was inferred" or "reportedly".

http://www.punditarena.com/golf/ckelleher/controversy-casts-dark-cloud-over-solheim-cup/

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/pettersen-turns-solheim-cup-into-ugly-tizzy-1.363475

http://practical-golf.com/solheim-cup-controversy-golf-should-be-above-this/

Thanks, that's all I was looking for.  Geezer just said "sources."

Interesting tidbit from the first article that I hadn't read before:

Lee missed the putt, with the ball coming to rest just inches past the hole (18 inches is the figure being bandied about). Charley Hull began walking to the 18th, with the umpire announcing that the match was tied through 17 holes.

Fascinating that apparently Lee wasn't the only one who thought that Hull's deliberate exit signified a concession.

[Dave2512]

You can actually hear the ump say that on the video.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by geezer

Regarding whether it 'should' have been given or not, it's worth noting that the concession of a putt is entirely at the discretion of ones competitor(s). If you and i are engaged in a matchplay situation I can give you a 40 foot putt, and then make you putt a 2" one the next hole. There is no 'should'.

It's quite a common tactic to give your opponent 2' putts all day till you get down to the last couple of holes and it's tight, then make them putt one when they haven't had a look at a short putt all day.

Again .... links?  Where did you "hear mention of this?"  If you don't have any info other than "your brothers fiances brothers cousins dads dogs sister" then ... you don't have ANY info.

Quote:

Dark Helmet - "I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate."

Lone Star - "What's that make us?"

Dark Helmet- "Absolutely Nothing!"

Sounds like people are 'hoping' that to be true, which in internet terms means it will become fact later on.  No confirmed source, then it's not true.

[vangator]

SP will live to regret being such a prick. You never walk away from the hole before it's decided. I thought of the 1996 US Amateur between Tiger Woods and Steve Scott. Tiger was down 2 with 2 to go on the 17th green. He had marked his ball one putter head from Scott's line. Tiger put his ball back where he had spotted it, not the original ball position. He was just about to putt when Scott interrupted him and told him he hadn't placed his ball back properly. If Scott would have said nothing, Tiger would have putted and Scott would have won the hole and the US Amateur title. Instead, Tiger replaced his ball properly, made the putt (remember the fist pump?) to win the 17th, won the 18th and won the title on the 2nd playoff hole for his 3rd consecutive title. After that, I was in the Swamp for the 1996 FBS National Championship celebration when Scott was introduced for his runner-up spot in the US Amateur and he received a standing ovation. I believe it was due to his outstanding display of sportsmanship. Great moment. And isn't that what golf is all about?

[rkim291968]

SP will live to regret being such a prick. You never walk away from the hole before it's decided.

I thought of the 1996 US Amateur between Tiger Woods and Steve Scott. Tiger was down 2 with 2 to go on the 17th green. He had marked his ball one putter head from Scott's line. Tiger put his ball back where he had spotted it, not the original ball position. He was just about to putt when Scott interrupted him and told him he hadn't placed his ball back properly. If Scott would have said nothing, Tiger would have putted and Scott would have won the hole and the US Amateur title. Instead, Tiger replaced his ball properly, made the putt (remember the fist pump?) to win the 17th, won the 18th and won the title on the 2nd playoff hole for his 3rd consecutive title.

After that, I was in the Swamp for the 1996 FBS National Championship celebration when Scott was introduced for his runner-up spot in the US Amateur and he received a standing ovation. I believe it was due to his outstanding display of sportsmanship. Great moment. And isn't that what golf is all about?

Yup, that's what it should be about, especially,  an event like Soldheim.

I played total of 4 match rounds in my golf career.   Not once did I see my opponent start walking to the next hole without conceding a short putt.   If they didn't concede, they watch it until I made/missed and moved to the next hole.   I've done the same.    Common courtesy.   No excuse for SP and her playing partner's behavior.   Lee learned a lesson, and the US team won.  All is good.

[Golfingdad]

Yup, that's what it should be about, especially,  an event like Soldheim.

I played total of 4 match rounds in my golf career.   Not once did I see my opponent start walking to the next hole without conceding a short putt.   If they didn't concede, they watch it until I made/missed and moved to the next hole.   I've done the same.    Common courtesy.   No excuse for SP and her playing partner's behavior.   Lee learned a lesson, and the US team won.  All is good.

I agree with the sentiment, but lets not twist the facts.  There isn't any video of Petterson walking away.  Only Hull and the caddies.  Petterson deserved (still past tense, she sincerely apologized) the vitriol for her handling of the situation once Lee had picked up, but we have no evidence that she deserves any blame for walking away.

[Nagah]

Always Always look to your opponent. Mark Your Ball. Then wait. Its NOT YOUR CALL to concede the putt.

[Nagah]

Yes. The integrity of the game and your character as a player/human being is on display.

[iacas]

Yes. The integrity of the game and your character as a player/human being is on display.

You should quote people before responding to them.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrFlipper

I gotta admit I'm really surprised by some of the responses. Especially folks who are so adamant about following the rules of golf otherwise.

I've been in tons of matches where I gave short putts until later holes of the match, then got silent and made the opponent putt, even 2 foot putts. Had it done to me, too. No big deal, it's just part of the psychological side of match play. Previous concessions don't imply future concessions in any way. If it's not clearly given, end of story. You putt it out. And this happens at all levels of match play.

Walking towards the edge of the green means nothing. Maybe a little bad form but it doesn't mean "that's good, pick it up."

Saying that one should go back and let her put the ball back down and putt it out "in good sportsmanship" makes no sense if it wasn't given in the first place. It's against the rules. No different than someone hitting OB on the first tee and you won't give them a mulligan. She should not have picked it up. This wasn't a $2 nassau at the muni. It's the Solheim freaking Cup. Rules is rules!

If this was a money bet there would have been none of this misplaced angst. Maybe I grew up in too much of an atmosphere of matches and betting, but these matches are a big deal. Lee was clearly wrong, 100% her fault. She doesn't get a mulligan or a do-over. And the Euros aren't expletive-deleteds for holding her to it.

Could not agree more.

I and couldn't disagree more.  If you can't win without playing mind games then you are playing the wrong game.  It's one thing in a Saturday match with your buddy, totally another in an actual competition.  Golf is supposed to be a game of honor, not a game of deception and trickery.  If that's what you like, play poker.

Allison said that she thought she heard someone say it was good.  That may have been someone in the gallery, something that none of us has ever had to deal with in a match.  If that was the case, then the ball should have been replaced and putted out.  If that was not the case then the hole stands.  The opponents walking as though they are leaving the green was a bush league stunt.