Instructor Quiz - YOUR Questions?

[iacas]

http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/the_instructor_quiz_nine_questions_youve_gotta_ask

That article is getting a little long in the tooth, so we're asking you to help us re-write it.

You can help us by listing any and all questions YOU think are important enough to ask an instructor. What's important to know before you sign up to work with them? What will help you learn whether the instructor is a good fit for you or not?

[RussUK]

First question that springs to mind for an instructor is how would they assess the requirements of a potential student in terms of their swing and what they want to get from the learning experience. As an instructor would they be open minded to different/alternative swing methods or would they stick to their "bread and butter" swing

[iacas]

I don't quite know how to phrase get yet, but I like when students ask me or tell me that they're prepared to rip apart their whole swing so that they can start from the ground up.

Because then they're SO happy when I tell them that doing that would be really stupid and a complete waste of time.

[JKolya]

Based on your questions - I prefer less leading. For example, for question number five simply ask what are the commonalities of the greatest players/what is essential to a solid golf swing. Then list the answers, just not within the question. This is more of a methodology/approach answer than content, which is what you asked. 

Content based: ball flight (check), commonalities (check), hips (perhaps add to the knee question or ask in a similar fashion, simplify commonalities/ask in another form by asking about impact position. What/how should players approach shots (fade, draw, high, low, stock - says something about overall view. Course management. Some of these do not deal with the golf swing, but are more holistic which sheds some view on their thinking in general. 

That was stream of conscience thinking/writing, will probably think of some better ones later. 

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, JKolya said:

Based on your questions - I prefer less leading. For example, for question number five simply ask what are the commonalities of the greatest players/what is essential to a solid golf swing. Then list the answers, just not within the question. This is more of a methodology/approach answer than content, which is what you asked.

Please consider this a bit more of a blank slate… I don't want to consider or really even look too much at the original article. It has flaws and needs updating… which is why I started this thread.

35 minutes ago, JKolya said:

Content based: ball flight (check), commonalities (check), hips (perhaps add to the knee question or ask in a similar fashion, simplify commonalities/ask in another form by asking about impact position. What/how should players approach shots (fade, draw, high, low, stock - says something about overall view. Course management. Some of these do not deal with the golf swing, but are more holistic which sheds some view on their thinking in general.

Good, but because we're lazy and/or stupid, could you please write them up as questions later on when you have a bit more time?

[Golfingdad]

46 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't quite know how to phrase get yet, but I like when students ask me or tell me that they're prepared to rip apart their whole swing so that they can start from the ground up.

Because then they're SO happy when I tell them that doing that would be really stupid and a complete waste of time.

Along these lines, I'd want to know if they lean towards teaching a particular swing or a method, rather than whatever it is you guys would call 5SK.  I know a really, really great guy who teaches and if I didn't have the knowledge I've gleaned on here and went to him for lessons, there is no doubt that I'd take in everything he was dishing out.  The problem is that he strips down everybody to bare bones and starts over with his swing - which even has a name.  He also pushes a specific series of 4 lessons, meaning that he's very cookie-cutter in a field that should be anything but.

I'd also obviously like to know if/how they incorporate technology (video, trackman, whatever).

[saevel25]

How would you set up to hit a draw or fade? ;) 

Baring any glaring weakness which parts of the game have the most influence on scoring? 

 

[Patch]

I would want to know if they are also a certified club builder in addition to be ing a qualified golf swing instructor. If not a club builder, do they work closely with one.  If the answer to either one is "yes", then we would continue on with our pre-lessons discussion with each other. If the answer is "no" to both, then I would most likely be continuing my search for who I am looking for.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Patch

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Patch said:

I would want to know if they are also a certified club builder in addition to be ing a qualified golf swing instructor. If not a club builder, do they work closely with one.  If the answer to either one is "yes", then we would continue on with our pre-lessons discussion with each other. If the answer is "no" to both, then I would most likely be continuing my search for who I am looking for.

Why?

Club fitting is not that important, not in the context of improving your golf swing. I can play with my wife's clubs and beat you giving you three a side. (Not intended as a put-down by any means… just to illustrate that equipment isn't that important.)

We don't fit clubs. We refer people to "Bert" who is known as the resident club fitter. Or Rich, or someone at their private club if that's their home base…

In short, I disagree that having a close connection with or being a club fitter himself is all that important.

Speaking generally, of course.

[Patch]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Why?

Club fitting is not that important, not in the context of improving your golf swing. I can play with my wife's clubs and beat you giving you three a side. (Not intended as a put-down by any means… just to illustrate that equipment isn't that important.)

We don't fit clubs. We refer people to "Bert" who is known as the resident club fitter. Or Rich, or someone at their private club if that's their home base…

In short, I disagree that having a close connection with or being a club fitter himself is all that important.

Speaking generally, of course.

Well,  properly fitted equipment is important to me. I have often thought that a golfer with ill fitted equipment will not benefit as much from instruction as golfer with fitted equipment.  

Lie angles, shaft lengths play big part in one's swing. I would also think if there is any validiy in the 1 & 2 plane swings, equipment variations might matter for those too.  As an example for fitted equipment, I might use the original Moe Norman Natural Golf Swing. The palm grip alone requires a certain lie angle. Having a club fitter at least available could help in tweaking a club or two to help with one's swing, which in turn would help with their scores. 

I too can play decent golf with clubs other than my own fitted set. Not as well, but decent. That's because I know some of the compensations I might need. As a qualified instructor you should be able use any various fitted equipment. It's your job to know how to swing better than us amateurs.

There is no doubt you could beat me regardless of strokes given. I get beat by better players every week, which is no big deal to meet. In fact I would be proud to lose to you some day. 

 

 

[sirhacksalot]

How do you give feedback?

Feels versus form?

 

[tcnbtx]

I regularly marshal at my local golf club, so I've got to know the asst pro fairly well. My wife got me a three lesson package for my birthday; but before I started, I asked my pro the following:

1. I'm currently a 12.5 HI and want to get down to 9 HI next year. Can we do that without large swing changes? (My goal/objective)

2. Can I get a playing lesson with you ( 9 holes) for you to evaluate my game and what we need to do together before any other lessons? (Evaluation of baseline)

I knew because of my hip, knee, and rib injuries, that I would not devote hours of practice, trying to learn a new swing or major changes, so I did not want to set any unreal expectations. After the playing lesson, we put together a plan of improvement and areas to focus on.

[JonMA1]

I'd simply ask him/her to explain their teaching philosophy. Depending on their explanation, I might followup with some questions. Basically, I'd want to know how differently they teach than what I think is correct. Being different wouldn't automatically be a deal breaker, but they'd have to instill some confidence.

I think using technology such as launch monitors is important.

Personality would matter - and that doesn't mean being "nice". I'd prefer brutal honesty over a sales pitch. Even a glimpse of anger over students who don't try wouldn't hurt. 

Sorry, I didn't really provide any answers to the OP. But I don't know that asking a list of questions would necessarily bring about the truth.

[JKolya]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Please consider this a bit more of a blank slate… I don't want to consider or really even look too much at the original article. It has flaws and needs updating… which is why I started this thread.

Good, but because we're lazy and/or stupid, could you please write them up as questions later on when you have a bit more time?

 

Still not exhaustive, I may come up with more later. I tried to break it down into a basic outline of the key areas that matter. What I came up with is 1) ball flight, 2) swing, and 3 course management/misc. I did not provide answers except where to show what I had in mind. I enjoyed brainstorming this and tried to think of things I see instructors say incorrectly when caddying. Hope this helps. I can provide my thoughts on answers and/or why I thought certain questions were important if necessary. 

 

 

1. Ball flight
   1. What laws dictate ball flight? Ie, what gives the ball its initial direction, clubface or club path?
   2. Given the ball flight laws, how does one shape the ball flight?
      1.  How do you hit a draw?
      2. How do you hit a fade?
      3. What causes a hook?
      4. What causes a slice?
      5. How do you correct these misses (hook and fade)?
      6. Answers:
         1. Before answering each individually, answer one overall - Clubface relative to swing path. Therefore, changing one relative to the other will change the ball shape.
   3. If a golfer wants to increase a draw, how may he accomplish this?
      1. Answers:
         1. Close clubface more - however, we do not recommend this
         2. Come more from the inside relative to the clubface
            1. This may be accomplished by -
               1. More weight forward
               2. Closing stance more at setup
               3. Etc…..
   4. If a golfer wants to increase a fade how is this accomplished? (I think it is important that if you ask this for a draw to also ask this for a fade. The reason is one answer for draw might be 'more weight forward,' leading one to believe a fade (the opposite) will be less weight forward which is not the best option. The reason for asking all of these is to insure complete knowledge relative to other facts/theories. I may not ask a new instructor all of these, but it doesn't hurt to test his knowledge.

 

 

 

2. Swing
   1. A recent Golf Channel (cannot remember if it was them) marketing campaign advocated swinging "your way." Is this the best approach to the golf swing or do you advocate a specific philosophy and method to learning and perfecting the golf swing?
   2. What are the swing commonalities that all great players have?
      1. We posit, supported by video evidence, that all great players possess the Five Simple Keys: 1) Steady head, 2) Weight forward, 3) Inline impact, 4) Diagonal sweetspot path, and 4) Clubface control
      2. Which of these commonalties, if not all, are essential for an average player of 15-20 handicap?
         1. Keys 1, 2, and 3.
   3. What role do the hips play in the golf swing? What is the best position for the hips in the backswing (restricted or open)?  Is the hip action essential and a commonality?
   4. What does the right leg and right knee do in the backswing? Does the right knee/leg straighten or stay in flexion during the backswing? Is the right leg and knee action essential and a commonality?
   5. What is the correct hand path in the backswing? Do the hands go straight back down the target line, or is the path more circular around the body? Is the path of the hands essential?
   6. What is the action of the forearms and wrist in the swing? Does one actively role the forearms and wrist in order to close the clubface to either hit the ball straight or to manipulate the desired ball face? Or does the closing of the clubface happen more naturally, a result of other biomechanical actions? If so, what actions most directly affect the closing of the clubface?
   7. What initiates the downswing? Should the downswing be initiated by the lower body, the upper body, or the arms?
      1. Answer: Ideally lower body, however, feel is not real and what each player feels initiates the downswing will differ between players. Depending on a players tendency and misses what initiates the downswing may need to change to achieve a desired result?
   8. What positions, if any, are essential to an ideal golf swing? (How important is achieving various "ideal" positions in the golf swing?) Where should the body and club be at A2? A3? A4? A5? A6? A7? 
   9. How do you analyze a swing? Do you utilize video in your lessons? How do you select what component of the swing a player should work on?
      1. What additional technologies to you utilize in lessons?

 

3. Management and Misc.
   1. Given the different ball flights and trajectories, how do you approach shot selection on the golf course? Do you recommend playing a straight shot, draw, fade, high, low, etc? For 5, 15, and 30 handicaps respectively, how does shot selection and the various possibilities differ?
      1. Answer: Stock shot
   2. What is your theory on course management? What is the most important aspect of the game, and therefore the most important aspect to practice (putting, short game, inside 100 (or 150…whatever), long game, drives? Does this vary for differing handicaps?

 

Edited November 21, 2015 by JKolya
Added a question.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Patch said:

Well,  properly fitted equipment is important to me. I have often thought that a golfer with ill fitted equipment will not benefit as much from instruction as golfer with fitted equipment.

They won't, but let me be clear about what I'm saying: If I was grading an instructor on a 1-100 scale (like a test), I'd consider "is a club fitter or is closely related to one" to be worth about five points. And for example, I wouldn't score a 0 out of those 5 points: I'd be at least a 1 or a 2 (maybe more… I know how to optimize driver shafts, I fit people for wedges and putters, I stay on top of equipment news and advancements, etc.). There are, IMO, sooooo many things that matter so much more in choosing an instructor.

In other words, the small added benefit of "an instructor who is also a master club fitter" is not anywhere near worth the loss of some other things that matter so much more. If my instructor was also a club fitter, cool - that's a bonus. But the instructor can still get an "A" while losing two or three points from the five in the "club fitter" category.

Not to mention that if you ask too much of your golf instructor you're risking finding a "jack of all trades/master of none" type guy.

4 hours ago, Patch said:

Lie angles, shaft lengths play big part in one's swing. I would also think if there is any validity in the 1 & 2 plane swings, equipment variations might matter for those too. As an example for fitted equipment, I might use the original Moe Norman Natural Golf Swing. The palm grip alone requires a certain lie angle. Having a club fitter at least available could help in tweaking a club or two to help with one's swing, which in turn would help with their scores.

I agree that they matter… but IMO far less than receiving actual quality instruction.

Now, no, that doesn't mean you can't find both. But the more little requirements you put on someone, the less likely you are to find someone who excels at the most important piece.

I'm not saying this is a great analogy, but if you're looking for a heart specialist, do you care if he is also a physical trainer and a nutritionalist? Yes, being in better shape and eating better is good for your heart, but don't you just want the best heart surgeon (or whatever you're looking for)?

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, Patch said:

I too can play decent golf with clubs other than my own fitted set. Not as well, but decent.

Right, so that illustrates how "important" club fitting really is. I'm pretty particular with how I like my clubs but even if I was to start playing a set off the rack my handicap isn't going to jump to a 10.

[Club Rat]

I know I'm probably wrong, and Erik will be so delighted to tell me, but here's my thought.

With the nine questions Dave used in the thread back in 2009, one other question I would like to add, "If the instructor offered a coaching package?"  Would individuals progress more effectively with continual coaching versus a few lessons?

On another note, I got a chuckle from the poster who thought lessons were a waste of time and $$ and spending the money on buying more golf balls best suited his style.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Club Rat said:

I know I'm probably wrong, and Erik will be so delighted to tell me, but here's my thought.

With the nine questions Dave used in the thread back in 2009, one other question I would like to add, "If the instructor offered a coaching package?"  Would individuals progress more effectively with continual coaching versus a few lessons?

That's a good question. I think it's better more from the discounted portion, but still… call it good from many angles.