Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 3656 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Is it possible to go from a 30 to a scratch in 18 months?   

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it possible to go from a 30 to a scratch in 18 months?

    • Yes
      12
    • No
      41


Recommended Posts

Posted
On 9 December 2015 at 5:29 PM, Rainmaker said:

That's awesome progress.  Can you make it scratch in 10 months . .sure.  Statistically speaking it's not likely but it depends on your natural talent and you obviously have some.  You're obviously practicing in a way that is effective, too.  If I were you, I wouldn't necessarily worry about making scratch in X number of months . .just keep doing what you're doing until you stop steadily improving.  If you're not already, take a lesson or two . .some people are naturally athletic enough to shoot pretty decently with poor technique but it's limiting to their overall progress.  Good luck!   

 

Before I had my handicap I had played a handful of times and smashed balls at te range with my old man maybe 1-2 times per year with no aim but to belt the skin off it. Since I got my handicap I have dedicated myself somewhat practicing maybe 2 times a week and playing 1-2 times a week except over winter as here in Melbourne it is stupid cold and wet and not enjoyable at all.

I now have a coach Sandy Jamieson who coaches a few pros like Jarrod Lyle. He aim is to have me off low single digits in a short time as I have a fair bit of length off the tee, I am just going through a bit of a swing change to try straighten me up. My average off the tee would be 230-240 meters.

I love that thread on practice time that someone posted and will be giving it a go straight away.

today we played parr at commonwealth and I walked away -1 which I was pretty happy about. Kingston Heath tomorrow, wish me luck.


Posted
33 minutes ago, Mjrowe1 said:

Today we played parr at commonwealth and I walked away -1 which I was pretty happy about. Kingston Heath tomorrow, wish me luck.

So, assuming that the slope/CR are set in such a way that your differential is approximately the difference between par your score, that would mean you had a differential of approximately +1 on the course. This would give you a net differential of -13 or so, meaning the odds of you actually shooting a round of one under par at that time (according to the USGA, table can be found HERE) are between 1/37,000 and 1/84,300. The truth is it's likely even worse odds, because the table only goes as far as a net differential of -10.

I'm sorry, but that really doesn't add up for a 13.7 handicap to ever shoot a score like this. Your best bet to truly improve would be for you to be honest, both with yourself and others, in order to receive the most useful information and help for you.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Wow that's too many numbers for me buddy, but good on you for giving me that. Par is a scoring system somewhat like stableford but you get a half for a net par, a + for a net birdie and a - for a net bogie. One thing I am with myself and everyone else around me is honest, the game is full of cheats and it's something I don't like at all. 

Thanks for you educational post @Pretzel I love a good numbers guy. Keep chipping away at your game, cheers 


Posted
6 minutes ago, Mjrowe1 said:

Wow that's too many numbers for me buddy, but good on you for giving me that. Par is a scoring system somewhat like stableford but you get a half for a net par, a + for a net birdie and a - for a net bogie. One thing I am with myself and everyone else around me is honest, the game is full of cheats and it's something I don't like at all. 

Thanks for you educational post @Pretzel I love a good numbers guy. Keep chipping away at your game, cheers 

Ah, I was under the assumption that you were referring to "parr" as a course name. Since you didn't capitalize the course's name, as well as spelling the word with two r's, threw me off as to it being a reference to the type of game you were playing rather than the specific course you played (there's a course I play called "Heritage at Westmoor" so I assumed it was a naming scheme for a course similar to that). My apologies.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Mjrowe1 said:

Before I had my handicap I had played a handful of times and smashed balls at te range with my old man maybe 1-2 times per year with no aim but to belt the skin off it. Since I got my handicap I have dedicated myself somewhat practicing maybe 2 times a week and playing 1-2 times a week except over winter as here in Melbourne it is stupid cold and wet and not enjoyable at all.

Hah, I wish I had your winter weather. I bet you get lots of playable days. You should at the very least be out putting and doing short game work as much as you can and hitting from heated stalls or indoors to keep you swing sharp if you are serious about your goal.

Assuming your practice estimates are correct at about 10 hours per week since January then you appear to be on a prodigious curve toward +3 pro territory (if you dedicate yourself for many years) - provided you sustain the progress long enough which is always key.

As far as your scratch goal, a zero handicap is probably likely around 4000 hours of cumulative practice on your curve. At the time you set your goal you had ~ 160 and now you have 480 hours. You better up the practice time if you want to make it 'on schedule'. This works out to about 88 hours a week in your remaining 10 months. Assuming you are in school, this seems unlikely. But don't get frustrated by the slow progress, you have demonstrated considerable talent. Work toward building up a competitive game for school teams as a shorter-term goal.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin


Posted

Depending on your personal skill set, you will hit a plateau.    My progress has been steady (from a 36 to 11 in 5 years), but where I'm at now, improvement has slowed significantly.    With the available time I have, I would much rather play than practice, so I don't see my hcp getting much lower ... just depends where your natural plateau is.

John

Fav LT Quote ... "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
6 hours ago, Mjrowe1 said:

 

Before I had my handicap I had played a handful of times and smashed balls at te range with my old man maybe 1-2 times per year with no aim but to belt the skin off it. Since I got my handicap I have dedicated myself somewhat practicing maybe 2 times a week and playing 1-2 times a week except over winter as here in Melbourne it is stupid cold and wet and not enjoyable at all.

I now have a coach Sandy Jamieson who coaches a few pros like Jarrod Lyle. He aim is to have me off low single digits in a short time as I have a fair bit of length off the tee, I am just going through a bit of a swing change to try straighten me up. My average off the tee would be 230-240 meters.

I love that thread on practice time that someone posted and will be giving it a go straight away.

today we played parr at commonwealth and I walked away -1 which I was pretty happy about. Kingston Heath tomorrow, wish me luck.

 

Most of the scratch golfers I know drive in the same range as you. If you are consistently in that range that's very good. Some golfers hit 200 yards on some drives hitting a tree or something then 280 on others, and that's not really conducive to scratch golf.

I can see you getting into the single digits pretty quickly, but there are a lot things to learn to get down to the low single digits. Not learn so much as become comfortable with odd situations. That learning takes a lot more time that you are currently dedicating.

Play a lot! Good luck.

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
On 12/9/2015 at 4:35 AM, Mjrowe1 said:

Thanks for the feed back and advice guys, I'm not very forum savy so you'll have to bare with me. I'm interested in this Dan Plan, how is he going? What were he's goals? Is he achieving what he set out to do?

as for me, how do I keep you up to date with my progress, training, coarses I play? I'm currently a member at Commonwealth golf club in Melbourne on the Sandbelt, we have the Vic amature championships on at the moment, the place is in ripping condition. Even better I get to play at Kingston Heath on Friday.

Start a thread in the Member Swings forum. There are some very good pros and knowledgable players on the site who can provide guide you with your swing progress.

http://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

Get Game Golf and post your account for people to keep track of your scores. Good luck!

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 hours ago, inthehole said:

Depending on your personal skill set, you will hit a plateau.    My progress has been steady (from a 36 to 11 in 5 years), but where I'm at now, improvement has slowed significantly.    With the available time I have, I would much rather play than practice, so I don't see my hcp getting much lower ... just depends where your natural plateau is.

You already play at a pretty decent level. Most people play worse. . .

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Lihu said:

You already play at a pretty decent level. Most people play worse. . .

true - not complaining, just being realistic with regard to my natural plateau.   There's always room for improvement - GIR and short putting I hope will improve over time given more reps/course time.   

John

Fav LT Quote ... "you can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen"

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

At least you're realistic. My experience is 10-12ish is the point of great deception. You have played better golf than the average hacker out there and can smell single digits but it's tough to make the next level.

For us on the US system imagine having to break 80 just to get something into your 10 best. Imagine breaking 80 on some courses and not having it get into your 10 best. Progress moving down starts to slow. Every differential in my 10 best is 8.9 or better. All those 80-84 scores I previous thought were a good day do nothing for me now, except move better scores out of the 20.

Dave :-)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I am predicting that you will get to around a 10 or maybe crack the high single digits by the end of your 18 months at your current rate of practice. You may not notice it, but you are already likely in the zone of diminishing returns on your accumulated time so shaving strokes will start to get tougher and tougher - but you can possibly be a pro-level golfer in time if you stick with it.

Enjoy the fact that you breezed to where you are while some of us struggle to maybe never reach it - and keep plugging away. Also, since you are young and maybe not fixated on pro golf yet do some other sports to cross-train and avoid overuse golf injuries. Many, many pros come up through the college ranks - even Tiger and it could get you a scholarship somewhere nice. Smart that you have a pro-level coach now.

Kevin


Posted
39 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

At least you're realistic. My experience is 10-12ish is the point of great deception. You have played better golf than the average hacker out there and can smell single digits but it's tough to make the next level.

For us on the US system imagine having to break 80 just to get something into your 10 best. Imagine breaking 80 on some courses and not having it get into your 10 best. Progress moving down starts to slow. Every differential in my 10 best is 8.9 or better. All those 80-84 scores I previous thought were a good day do nothing for me now, except move better scores out of the 20.

In some ways, I think the new proposed system will be better and easier to maintain a lower handicap. It gives you a lot more "practice rounds" than the current system "allows".

Yeah, it's easy to be deceived by better than bad playing. However, it's especially gratifying when a 10-12ish plays a single digit player that he doesn't know and happen to be "on" at the time, and make them sweat a little bit.:banana:

 

1 hour ago, inthehole said:

true - not complaining, just being realistic with regard to my natural plateau.   There's always room for improvement - GIR and short putting I hope will improve over time given more reps/course time.   

True, and it's not so bad at this point. . .I'm not clawing around trying to improve my game that much. If it improves, it improves. If not, no biggie. . .

I kind of enjoy waiting on other people rather than having other people waiting on me. :-D

 

 

4 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I am predicting that you will get to around a 10 or maybe crack the high single digits by the end of your 18 months at your current rate of practice. You may not notice it, but you are already likely in the zone of diminishing returns on your accumulated time so shaving strokes will start to get tougher and tougher - but you can possibly be a pro-level golfer in time if you stick with it.

Enjoy the fact that you breezed to where you are while some of us struggle to maybe never reach it - and keep plugging away. Also, since you are young and maybe not fixated on pro golf yet do some other sports to cross-train and avoid overuse golf injuries. Many, many pros come up through the college ranks - even Tiger and it could get you a scholarship somewhere nice. Smart that you have a pro-level coach now.

I predict that he'll make scratch, but not in 10 months. . .

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I predict that he'll make scratch, but not in 10 months. . .

I expect you are fixated on his driving distance as a limiting factor, but I think that with time (he's only been really playing for less than a year) that he will add distance and consistency and has potential to get into pro-level (>+2) HCP range. If he doesn't ad distance as his swing (and body) develops, then I agree with you.

On his current practice schedule, I'd guesstimate 8 years to scratch and ~ +2 in 16 years. But but I expect he'll get more serious and increase practice to accelerate his progress.

Edited by natureboy

Kevin


Posted
7 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I expect you are fixated on his driving distance as a limiting factor, but I expect that with time (he's only been really playing for less than a year) that he will add distance and consistency and has potential to get into pro-level (>+2) HCP range. If he doesn't ad distance as his swing (and body) develops, then I agree with you.

Yes, but at the same time we don't know how old is the OP. He could possibly get better? The only data point I am basing this assertion off of is that an average +4 handicap carries a driver 275 yards and hits pretty straight.

:ping:  :tmade:  :callaway:   :gamegolf:  :titleist:

TM White Smoke Big Fontana; Pro-V1
TM Rac 60 TT WS, MD2 56
Ping i20 irons U-4, CFS300
Callaway XR16 9 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S
Callaway XR16 3W 15 degree Fujikura Speeder 565 S, X2Hot Pro 20 degrees S

"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Yes, but at the same time we don't know how old is the OP. He could possibly get better? The only data point I am basing this assertion off of is that an average +4 handicap carries a driver 275 yards and hits pretty straight.

He mentions a 'coach' rather than going for golf instruction so he sounds like a young guy in 'player development' stage, but I could be wrong.

Kevin


Posted

 I have never heard of anyone going from 30 to scratch in 18 months. Getting to single digits from 30 is hard enough. The biggest jump is from 3-5 to scratch from what I have heard over the years. However good luck in your endeavor. 


Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, natureboy said:

I expect you are fixated on his driving distance as a limiting factor, but I think that with time (he's only been really playing for less than a year) that he will add distance and consistency and has potential to get into pro-level (>+2) HCP range. If he doesn't ad distance as his swing (and body) develops, then I agree with you.

Note that the OP mentioned averaging (probably on good drives only) 230-240 meters, so that's 250-265 yards, pretty long already, and not a limitation for a scratch golfer who is expecting to average around 250 yds according to the USGA definition of a scratch golfer.

Edited by sjduffers

Philippe

:callaway: Maverick Driver, 3W, 5W Big Bertha 
:mizuno: JPX 900 Forged 4-GW
:mizuno:  T7 55-09 and 60-10 forged wedges,
:odyssey: #7 putter (Slim 3.0 grip)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 3656 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.