R&A has decided Trump Turnberry won’t host British Open

[rkim291968]

3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

IMO When an organization or business can decide it will no longer serve or work with those who publicly support an opinion or political position that is contrary to their own we're on the verge of censorship.

No fear of that happening en masse any time soon.  This isn't going to set the new trend of censorship.   This will pass after the election, and Trump goes back to his original business.

 

To put this in another perspective, if you or I constantly post something in these forums that offends groups of people, we will be put on penalty box, or even be banned.   What's happening to Trump isn't so much different.   He is talking the talk and there is a consequence to his talks.

[DaveP043]

16 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I realize the 1st Amendment means nothing to the R&A which is why I also included the PGA Tour.  My interest in the topic is not because I believe any of Trump's courses are so incredible we as golf fans would be cheated if they were excluded but because I see the potential for this to become a precedent that scares me.

The PGA Tour has been very righteous against Trump, but where was all this righteousness when it continued to support, promote and recognize the Masters as a Major Tournament when Augusta National was thought to be racist and misogynistic and still is by some? 

IMO When an organization or business can decide it will no longer serve or work with those who publicly support an opinion or political position that is contrary to their own we're on the verge of censorship.

Attitudes do change, and the PGA Tour has made difficult choices not to continue to play at places like Shoal Creek and Cypress Point in reaction to their membership policies.  The PGA never had any control over the Masters, that tournament has always been independent, although the PGA Tour certainly does cooperate with them.  Although the management at Augusta National will probably never admit it, I believe that public pressure surrounding the Masters was influential in their decision to invite women and people of color to become members.

The flip side of the last sentence is this:  if a company is NOT allowed to choose who to do business with based on anticipated financial consequences of that alliance, the financial consequences may drive them out of business.

 

[boogielicious]

12 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I realize the 1st Amendment means nothing to the R&A which is why I also included the PGA Tour.  My interest in the topic is not because I believe any of Trump's courses are so incredible we as golf fans would be cheated if they were excluded but because I see the potential for this to become a precedent that scares me.

The PGA Tour has been very righteous against Trump, but where was all this righteousness when it continued to support, promote and recognize the Masters as a Major Tournament when Augusta National was thought to be racist and misogynistic and still is by some? 

IMO When an organization or business can decide it will no longer serve or work with those who publicly support an opinion or political position that is contrary to their own we're on the verge of censorship.

Joe,

The R&A, PGA, etc are organizations that work with businesses and sponsors. They make decisions based on what is best for the organization and their sponsors. If it would have hurt them to drop Turnberry, then the decision may have been different.

FWIW, my company, a Fortune 500, is very concerned with respect to diversity because our customers are diverse. If one of our business partners or spokespersons acted this way, they would seriously consider dropping them because it may hurt the business. We want our customers to respect us and buy our products. I really doesn't have to do with the 1st Amendment at all.

[newtogolf]

6 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Joe,

The R&A, PGA, etc are organizations that work with businesses and sponsors. They make decisions based on what is best for the organization and their sponsors. If it would have hurt them to drop Turnberry, then the decision may have been different.

FWIW, my company, a Fortune 500, is very concerned with respect to diversity because our customers are diverse. If one of our business partners or spokespersons acted this way, they would seriously consider dropping them because it may hurt the business. We want our customers to respect us and buy our products. I really doesn't have to do with the 1st Amendment at all.

I've worked for Fortune 500's too and I can accept their actions if it's just a business decision. 

I have no connections to the R&A or PGA Tour inner sanctums so it's possible there has been considerable push back from their sponsors and fans to disassociate from Trump.  I do spend a lot of time around golfers and golf courses and I've never heard anyone (except here) state they wouldn't ever play a Trump course because of the stupid statements he's made.  Many won't play his courses because they are too expensive, not worth the cost, too far to travel to, etc but none have voiced such disdain for the man that they wouldn't play his course or attend a tournament hosted at one of his courses.

[loki16]

News reports that Trump Turnberry has lost The Open due to his controversial remarks.

i am thrilled that this shit stirring, racist, sexist, bottom feeder is getting a kick right where it will hurt the most.

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by loki16

[Gunther]

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've worked for Fortune 500's too and I can accept their actions if it's just a business decision. 

I have no connections to the R&A or PGA Tour inner sanctums so it's possible there has been considerable push back from their sponsors and fans to disassociate from Trump.  I do spend a lot of time around golfers and golf courses and I've never heard anyone (except here) state they wouldn't ever play a Trump course because of the stupid statements he's made.  Many won't play his courses because they are too expensive, not worth the cost, too far to travel to, etc but none have voiced such disdain for the man that they wouldn't play his course or attend a tournament hosted at one of his courses.

I'm guessing you don't hang out with many sensitive liberals, I sure don't.  

[dkolo]

26 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I realize the 1st Amendment means nothing to the R&A which is why I also included the PGA Tour.  My interest in the topic is not because I believe any of Trump's courses are so incredible we as golf fans would be cheated if they were excluded but because I see the potential for this to become a precedent that scares me.

The PGA Tour has been very righteous against Trump, but where was all this righteousness when it continued to support, promote and recognize the Masters as a Major Tournament when Augusta National was thought to be racist and misogynistic and still is by some? 

IMO When an organization or business can decide it will no longer serve or work with those who publicly support an opinion or political position that is contrary to their own we're on the verge of censorship.

What's the alternative? To compel people and organizations to do business with anyone who comes to them with a proposition? What if they have two competing offers for the same thing? They can't use the fact that one of the organizations says hateful things as the decider? I think this kind of situation would greatly infringe upon freedom of association rights that we hold. 

It's a marketplace of ideas. If a business gets into censorship because of being overly sensitive and there's enough consumers would want something else, a competitor will emerge to service that need at the detriment of the censoring company. The best way to ensure free speech and expression is to reduce barriers to people being able to express that speech. Over time, the market will take care of it. 

The PGA Tour and Augusta condoned or supported those policies when they weren't being pushed to reevaluate them. When the public put enough pressure on them, the organizations either reconsidered the wisdom of the policies or capitulated to market forces. In the end, it doesn't really matter because I think both organizations are run by people now who would genuinely have disagreed with those earlier policies. The market forced them to evolve.

[Golfingdad]

6 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've worked for Fortune 500's too and I can accept their actions if it's just a business decision. 

I have no connections to the R&A or PGA Tour inner sanctums so it's possible there has been considerable push back from their sponsors and fans to disassociate from Trump.  I do spend a lot of time around golfers and golf courses and I've never heard anyone (except here) state they wouldn't ever play a Trump course because of the stupid statements he's made.  Many won't play his courses because they are too expensive, not worth the cost, too far to travel to, etc but none have voiced such disdain for the man that they wouldn't play his course or attend a tournament hosted at one of his courses.

I hope to play his Rancho Palos Verdes course later this year.  And I wouldn't even hesitate to watch the Open if they held it at Turnberry still.  This is probably true for many of us on here, if not a large majority.  But none of us (as far as I know) are even remotely influential in regards to the R&A's business decision making.

[Golfingdad]

 

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I've worked for Fortune 500's too and I can accept their actions if it's just a business decision. 

I have no connections to the R&A or PGA Tour inner sanctums so it's possible there has been considerable push back from their sponsors and fans to disassociate from Trump.  I do spend a lot of time around golfers and golf courses and I've never heard anyone (except here) state they wouldn't ever play a Trump course because of the stupid statements he's made.  Many won't play his courses because they are too expensive, not worth the cost, too far to travel to, etc but none have voiced such disdain for the man that they wouldn't play his course or attend a tournament hosted at one of his courses.

Obviously, I'm one of the people here who supports the R&A decision.  On the other hand, I'd watch the Open whether its at Turnberry or not, and the primary reason I'll avoid Mr. Trump's courses is the cost, not because of what he's said.  I DO get to play at his Sterling VA club once in a while, so I hope he's not reading TST.  He might try to ban my home club from our Northern Virginia interclub league.  We're the kind of riff-raff he'd prefer to keep out of golf.

[dkolo]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I hope to play his Rancho Palos Verdes course later this year.  And I wouldn't even hesitate to watch the Open if they held it at Turnberry still.  This is probably true for many of us on here, if not a large majority.  But none of us (as far as I know) are even remotely influential in regards to the R&A's business decision making.

I've driven by his Trump Links Ferry Point golf course from back when it was a dump and we wondered what they were building on it (hence why I and others have taken to calling it Dump Links, hehe). I saw a playing video of Rick Shiels, Peter Finch, and one of the Me and My Golf guys playing it, and it looks cool. Flying super low over it into LaGuardia is genuinely spectacular. I can't answer whether I'd play it or boycott it myself because the $200+ greens fees are out of my price range, so it's a pure hypothetical to me.

[Golfingdad]

7 minutes ago, dkolo said:

I've driven by his Trump Links Ferry Point golf course from back when it was a dump and we wondered what they were building on it (hence why I and others have taken to calling it Dump Links, hehe). I saw a playing video of Rick Shiels, Peter Finch, and one of the Me and My Golf guys playing it, and it looks cool. Flying super low over it into LaGuardia is genuinely spectacular. I can't answer whether I'd play it or boycott it myself because the $200+ greens fees are out of my price range, so it's a pure hypothetical to me.

The cost is also the main reason I haven't played Trump National as well. (Daily fee ranges from $215 - $280)

Interesting (or not) piece of info by the way:  several of the golf commercials out there have been filmed at that course.  Off the top of my head, some b&w Nike commercials with Paul Casey a few years ago, the Mastercard commercials - specifically the one with Tom Watson driving the range picker cart, and currently the David Feherty (are they for Buick or Bridgestone?  I can't remember) commercials.

[rkim291968]

As for me, there are just too many good (and cheaper) courses to play at Trump's courses.   Of course if someone pays for my green fee, I will play but won't fix divots  .

[DaveP043]

Just now, rkim291968 said:

As for me, there are just too many good (and cheaper) courses to play at Trump's courses.   Of course if someone pays for my green fee, I will play but won't fix divots  .

Now THAT is just wrong!!

[rkim291968]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

Now THAT is just wrong!!

Yeah, so censor me. 

[GolfLug]

3 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

As for me, there are just too many good (and cheaper) courses to play at Trump's courses.   Of course if someone pays for my green fee, I will play but won't fix divots  .

"That's not nice.... I know lot of nice people. You are not a nice person."

[DaveP043]

I just won't buy your falafels. 

[rkim291968]

Just now, GolfLug said:

"That's not nice.... I know lot of nice people. You are not a nice person."

I am "a disaster."   I won't "get along" with people.