Golfing under the influence, should this be moderated?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

Much as I respect Erik, I don't see that he is any more of an authority on this than is Bob Rotella.

If we ranked "the mental game" as an SV skill, it would probably be an SV①. It doesn't account for many strokes saved, AND, everyone is different - some people are better golfers when pissed, some go to shit. Some days you're better ticked, others not so much. Or distracted. Or whatever. There's not a high correlation.

And of course Bob Rotella pushes the importance of the mental game. He makes his living from it. At the end of the day, as I've said a few times, I don't care if Rory is kinda drunk, high, fighting with his girlfriend AND parents, and has a heckler in the audience - he's gonna shoot a much lower score than you even if Dr. Bob is your caddie and you have worked with him exclusively for a year prior.

That's all. It's not hugely important. Probably isn't even moderately important. It's likely of lesser importance. It slightly increases the chances of hitting a better shot.

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

If mental game was not an important part of golf (or most any sport) there would be no sports psychologists.

Yeah, that's not really true. People believe they're important, so they exist.

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

Part of the mental game is course management (which as I understand it is an integral part of LSW), and that requires thinking clearly about every shot.

We break that out as "GamePlanning." It's simply a decision, it's not "the mental game" in our opinion.

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

And, by the way, I never said that I'd be a scratch golfer with a better mental game.  All I say is that when I don't use my noggin, My otherwise poor game gets far worse.

He referenced the thread because it over-states how much weight a number of people falsely attribute to the mental game.

[NJpatbee]

I only answered the original question:  Should GUI (golfing under the influence) not be allowed for handicap scoring?

To me this implies impairment and is likely to inflate the player's score, so I answered "absolutely".  That being said I do not care if someone has a few and does not become a jerk.  

[saevel25]

4 hours ago, Fourputt said:

If mental game was not an important part of golf (or most any sport) there would be no sports psychologists. 

Where were the sports psychologists 30 years ago? This is relatively a new phenomena in golf and in sports. I would like to see how much this is actually used. What's the percentage of golfers using a sports psychologists? I would bet it's extremely low. 

I voted Doesn't Matter. If a golfer wants to drink and as long as it's not an illegal substance then that is fine. 

 

[Lihu]

If I read the question is it a double negative? I voted no way because I think it is okay to drink, golf and post.

[jsgolfer]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

 I voted no way because I think it is okay to drink, golf and post.

That's exactly how I voted

[ScouseJohnny]

I doubt this question really matters very much, all things considered:

A really good, competitive golfer, serious about winning things, probably isn't boozing it up on the course - not even during practice rounds.

A golfer who posts scores that are higher than his ability suggests, as a result of intoxication, will likely never benefit from that. Chances are, during the Sunday medal, he'll be anxiously looking for the beer cart on the second tee...

 

 

[natureboy]

6 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

1. But you don't have any real data on that, you remember those examples more because emotions are tied to memory.

2. Is this all that scientific? In a test like this I'd be pretty sure people were screwing with me anyway. You see how the the second guy smiles after making the first shot post-blindfold? He suspects something is up and I don't blame him.

Also I would bet the woman had little free-throw background so her second round of shots built on the prior practice. I definitely think mental outlook has an effect on performance, but this was not a well-designed experiment.

Re. the thread title, please don't take away a perfect complement to a round on a hot sunny day.

Edited March 20, 2016 by natureboy

[Valleygolfer]

6 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

1. But you don't have any real data on that, you remember those examples more because emotions are tied to memory.

2. Is this all that scientific? In a test like this I'd be pretty sure people were screwing with me anyway. You see how the the second guy smiles after making the first shot post-blindfold? He suspects something is up and I don't blame him.

1. I would agree that it is difficult to quantify my experience. Another example is momentum changes in games, yes difficult to quantify but widely recognized.

2. Just a fun experiment that proves research. The test worked across the board except for with a college basketball player who was used to the heckling.

Listen you can deny all you want, but mental game affects the average player. It doesn't mean that they will be a star player but prone to less mistakes when their mental game is on their side.

[SavvySwede]

6 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

1. I would agree that it is difficult to quantify my experience. Another example is momentum changes in games, yes difficult to quantify but widely recognized.

2. Just a fun experiment that proves research. The test worked across the board except for with a college basketball player who was used to the heckling.

Listen you can deny all you want, but mental game affects the average player. It doesn't mean that they will be a star player but prone to less mistakes when their mental game is on their side.

Now you are talking about do different things.

1. High pressure situations that your average golfer will never face.
2. The flubs, dumb misses, and yanked putts amateurs hit everyday which they blame on lack of focus.

They have one PB round where they minimize #2 and think it would be like that every time if they could just "focus" for 18 straight holes when in reality they flipped heads 18 times in a row.

[Valleygolfer]

4 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Now you are talking about do different things.

1. High pressure situations that your average golfer will never face.
2. The flubs, dumb misses, and yanked putts amateurs hit everyday which they blame on lack of focus.

They have one PB round where they minimize #2 and think it would be like that every time if they could just "focus" for 18 straight holes when in reality they flipped heads 18 times in a row.

Really it is not, but this is like arguing about religion.

[Papa Steve 55]

9 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

Sure it is. People go to fortune tellers because they're looking for a simplified solution that doesn't involve any real effort, car dealerships are basically "invented" industries, and Walmart greeters just aren't needed. Hits three separate points.

Walmart greeters are to reduce shoplifting. When they took them out there was a 30% increase. Just acknowledging that the store knew you were there, by greeting, was a deterrent.

[Buckeyebowman]

First of all, I think we have to determine what "under the influence" actually means. If I decide to sip a beer during the play of a couple of holes, and were breathalyzed 5-10 minutes after finishing it, I could probably be said to be under the influence. But it's not really going to affect my game. If I get drunk on my ass, which I don't do, even on field days and in scrambles, it certainly will.

Anybody remember the hullabaloo over beta blockers some years back on the tour? They were supposed to calm the jitters. There was a player, from South Africa I believe, whose name I'm blocking on right now, who had a legit medical reason to take them. Nick Price! That's who it was. He said he had one of his worst years on tour when he was taking them. He said they wouldn't let him get "up" for the challenge if he happened to get in contention. Turns out sometimes you want the jitters!

As far as the mental game goes, I seem to play my best when I think very little. Sort of "the game played me" kind of idea. Of course I'll get my yardage, but what's more important is how the shot looks. The yardage might say 6 iron, but it will look like a 7 or a 5. That's what I'll hit, and more often than not it's the right club. And I used to be really good at this game.

So, I went with the third response, "doesn't matter".

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

Now you are talking about do different things.

1. High pressure situations that your average golfer will never face.
2. The flubs, dumb misses, and yanked putts amateurs hit everyday which they blame on lack of focus.

They have one PB round where they minimize #2 and think it would be like that every time if they could just "focus" for 18 straight holes when in reality they flipped heads 18 times in a row.

Most golfers feel like their good shots are their "potential", and do not understand that the laws of probability were in their favor with the perceived good shots.

Not sure how you can word it differently to make it more easily digestible?

 

4 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Really it is not, but this is like arguing about religion.

@SavvySwede is simply saying that the better you strike the ball the better you play on average. Mental "game" has very little impact on score. Which is true.

So, booze or not it makes no difference unless you can hit the ball well.

[jsgolfer]

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Most golfers feel like their good shots are their "potential", and do not understand that the laws of probability were in their favor with the perceived good shots.

Not sure how you can word it differently to make it more easily digestible?

 

@SavvySwede is simply saying that the better you strike the ball the better you play on average. Mental "game" has very little impact on score. Which is true.

So, booze or not it makes no difference unless you can hit the ball well.

Lihu & Savvy hit it on the head.  I think lots of amateurs, and maybe even some pro's, rationalize the bad, and the good shots.  The bad shots would've been good if i just concentrated better and the good shots were good because I was in a good frame of mind, rather than I just struck the ball as good as I could at that point in time.   And as most of us can attest, this can happen hole to hole and shot to shot.    

[Valleygolfer]

22 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

Lihu & Savvy hit it on the head.  I think lots of amateurs, and maybe even some pro's, rationalize the bad, and the good shots.  The bad shots would've been good if i just concentrated better and the good shots were good because I was in a good frame of mind, rather than I just struck the ball as good as I could at that point in time.   And as most of us can attest, this can happen hole to hole and shot to shot.    

Yes you guys are right. You win. Silly me.

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Yes you guys are right. You win. Silly me.

I can see you're convinced.

It's not that you are silly or wrong, actually, most golfers think they can hit as well as their best shots "if they could just reproduce that good shot".

Basically, the odds of hitting a good ball with a bad swing are low, and the odds of hitting a good ball with a good swing are better.

So, if a swing is not impaired by alcohol, then a good golfer should still score okay.

[Valleygolfer]

24 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I can see you're convinced.

It's not that you are silly or wrong, actually, most golfers think they can hit as well as their best shots "if they could just reproduce that good shot".

Basically, the odds of hitting a good ball with a bad swing are low, and the odds of hitting a good ball with a good swing are better.

So, if a swing is not impaired by alcohol, then a good golfer should still score okay.

Um no, this is not what I am talking about but you guys enjoy.

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

Um no, this is not what I am talking about but you guys enjoy.

 

Was your assertion was that if you have a better mental game then you will play better?

What I am saying is that it doesn't matter what mental state you are in, you play the same on average. For instance, I didn't feel like going out to play one day and ended up shooting a personal best (77), while I went out another day thinking that I'm going to beat up this course and ended up getting beaten up pretty badly by it (45 for 9 holes).

So, drunk or not, as long as you can make the same swing then you will play roughly the same on average. So, golf, drink, post and enjoy!