Golfing under the influence, should this be moderated?

[turtleback]

On 3/23/2016 at 7:30 AM, Valleygolfer said:

I don't know what this is.

Here is another example of a "supplement" aiding in performance. It may seem trivial but with so many other trivial rules with banning antler material or other performance enhancing supplements, where's the line? Pretty big improvements with caffeine. I may have to grab some at the turn...

 

 

 

A study of 12 golfers over 36 holes proves absolutely nothing.  Except that the media (and their readers) is gullible.The study was garbage.  

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-sports-caffeine-golf-idUSKCN0QX2D020150828

For example, the study says, about those being studied:  " The golfers were already used to consuming caffeine in their daily lives. "

So how do we distinguish the claims of the study from an alternate interpretation where it wasn't that the ones given caffeine played BETTER, it was the ones given the placebo who played WORSE because they usual caffeine was withheld from them?  But hey, depriving someone of something that they are used to couldn't affect anything, would it?  It is hard to believe that anyone would think that this experiment design could prove anything.

Garbage study, assiduously reported on in the media.  This is science in the 21st century. 

Apropos of nothing in particular, when kids with hyperactivity came to my school after having forgotten to take their meds, they would routinely be given some coffee to drink and the caffeine seemed to calm them down quite a bit.

 

On 3/23/2016 at 5:24 PM, Keith White said:

Why does anyone need alcohol or substances when playing golf.  Just go and play and be strong enough to do the one thing with your full senses and enjoy it. Plenty of time for other stuff when your done swingin.  For some of my buddies it seems drinking beer is the biggest reason for going to golf, I'm the opposite.

For some of us it allows us to play in spite of conditions like arthritis or other things.  I am a medical marijuana patient and my choice is either play medicated or do not play.  It is a big world out there and no one size fits everything.  

[Valleygolfer]

20 minutes ago, turtleback said:

For example, the study says, about those being studied:  " The golfers were already used to consuming caffeine in their daily lives. "

 

So they determined that they had some caffeine regularly, who doesn't. No one was necessarily restricted from caffeine. They did a small study that show these results. We probably told that they weren't supposed to drink or eat anything prior to testing. Maybe you made your decision on this before weighing other option. Your post sounds heavily swayed with personal feelings.

[iacas]

Just now, Valleygolfer said:

So they determined that they had some caffeine regularly, who doesn't. No one was necessarily restricted from caffeine. They did a small study that show these results. We probably told that they weren't supposed to drink or eat anything prior to testing. Maybe you made your decision on this before weighing other option. Your post sounds heavily swayed with personal feelings.

What?

This whole thread is bizarre.

[Valleygolfer]

4 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

So they determined that they had some caffeine regularly, who doesn't. No one was necessarily restricted from caffeine. They did a small study that show these results. We probably told that they weren't supposed to drink or eat anything prior to testing. Maybe you made your decision on this before weighing other option. Your post sounds heavily swayed with personal feelings.

4 hours ago, iacas said:

What?

This whole thread is bizarre.

Yea I typed "we" instead of "they" sorry it was so confusing....

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

Yea I typed "we" instead of "they" sorry it was so confusing....

That's not what I was commenting on.

I was commenting on the fact that you seem to think that we should prevent people from, what, playing in tournaments if they've had caffeine? What else would golfers not be allowed to have? Carbs? Sugar? Water?

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not what I was commenting on.

I was commenting on the fact that you seem to think that we should prevent people from, what, playing in tournaments if they've had caffeine? What else would golfers not be allowed to have? Carbs? Sugar? Water?

No, I think we've established that water is okay as long as the mineral content is below an acceptable level. My local water might not meet that criteria.

[Valleygolfer]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

That's not what I was commenting on.

I was commenting on the fact that you seem to think that we should prevent people from, what, playing in tournaments if they've had caffeine? What else would golfers not be allowed to have? Carbs? Sugar? Water?

I am just debating the use of performance enhancing materials. I agree that this is somewhat "piddly" topic but how does the pga decide what is "performance enhancing" or not, even if it is as mundane as caffeine or even LSD. It would seem a big deal, if accurate, to achieve a 2+ shot advantage with the use of a outside drug no matter what it is.

I never said I thought caffeine should be banned for the record... I am just saying if you can use it to alter your score for the better it could be questioned. If it is bothering you lock the thread I guess.

[iacas]

Just now, Valleygolfer said:

I am just debating the use of performance enhancing materials. I agree that this is somewhat "piddly" topic but how does the pga decide what is "performance enhancing" or not, even if it is as mundane as caffeine or even LSD. It would seem a big deal, if accurate, to achieve a 2+ shot advantage with the use of a outside drug no matter what it is.

They pretty much go by the WADA and the Olympics and whatnot. No?

[Valleygolfer]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

They pretty much go by the WADA and the Olympics and whatnot. No?

I don't really know. I would say you know better than I.

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

That's not what I was commenting on.

I was commenting on the fact that you seem to think that we should prevent people from, what, playing in tournaments if they've had caffeine? What else would golfers not be allowed to have? Carbs? Sugar? Water?

No food of course....Hunger Games.

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

They pretty much go by the WADA and the Olympics and whatnot. No?

For the most part. There are some things that would DQ you for some sports that I doubt would for golf. A Romanian gymnast lost her golf in Beijing because she took Sudafed for a cold. A golfer may have to notify they are taking it, but I doubt it would be restricted. 

[Valleygolfer]

29 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

For the most part. There are some things that would DQ you for some sports that I doubt would for golf. A Romanian gymnast lost her golf in Beijing because she took Sudafed for a cold. A golfer may have to notify they are taking it, but I doubt it would be restricted. 

Haha...definitely type golf more than gold... took me a sec to figure out what you meant.

[boogielicious]

29 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

Haha...definitely type golf more than gold... took me a sec to figure out what you meant.

Ha! I didn't even notice. I guess it is muscle memory.

[Ernest Jones]

On March 25, 2016 at 0:47 AM, BlueBallz said:

The CIA stopped using it as it made soldiers not want to go and kill people and brought on a sudden awakening that was irreversible. Their's clips on youtube of the soldiers sent out to do a drill on LSD and they end up admiring the tree's and throwing away there gun's, the realisation of what they were really doing hit them. Ritalin/Adderall worked much better at creating mindless killer's who follow order's.

What really happened in the 70's when you sieve through all the government driven propaganda? The government lost control over the people. They taint it with hippie flowery druggy nonsense but people were dissolving ego's and boundaries on huge scales. They were no longer in fear so could no longer be controlled. LSD played a big role in this. 

I have never experienced paranoia on LSD infact the opposite i have a feeling of confidence and assertiveness moreso than normal.

Plus it helped put 40 yards on my driver and was an invaluable tool when i learned Thai

Yes i mean micrograms

 

Lihu i like your pic 

Those with no, or limited, psychedelic experience will think you're crazy and drug addled!

Those who have dibbled in the dabble a little deeper, will agree with you. 

I don't partake anymore, but was once a fearless adventurer.  I remember the days of eating a handful of shrooms and dominating bar room pool tables for hours on end. Can't miss, see every line etched into the table with crystal veins. If you can handle the Weird, it'll certainly make you a better putter.

 

And the CIA stopped using it because all their most promising MK-ULTRA subjects, Ken Kesey being the most famous, went rogue in spectacular fashion. They thought they were creating super agents, but instead they were "waking" people up, and the last thing a government wants is a wide awake populace.  

[Patch]

Here's a question. Are golf courses considered a public place? If so, then being under the influence of something is considered illegal, a misdemeanor in most municipalities. Per the OP's question, there's your moderation right there. If you are breaking the law, your score shouldn't count towards anything. 

Yeah, I know. Its a stretch, but the law is on the books. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by Patch

[Golfingdad]

On March 20, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Valleygolfer said:

It could seem that using some sort of substance whether it be pot, caffeine, nicotine, alcohol or any other substance to calm or stimulate yourself could be against the rules of golf as far as handicap scoring. True skills and ability make up a big part of golf but mental fortitude is even more of a factor. This being said, to use an outside influence to take the "tension" out of your swing could be questionable..

Obviously, this would be policed solely by the player...

I would have to retire.  I have to take anti-inflammatories (ibuprofen) before EVERY round of golf I play.

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

So they determined that they had some caffeine regularly, who doesn't. No one was necessarily restricted from caffeine. They did a small study that show these results. We probably told that they weren't supposed to drink or eat anything prior to testing. Maybe you made your decision on this before weighing other option. Your post sounds heavily swayed with personal feelings.

You are right.  I am STRONGLY personally biased against pseudo studies that are reported in the media as if they were meaningful.  That sounds like one of the dumbest experimental designs I could imagine, if the goal is to develop new information, rather than just make a splash.

I also noticed that all you had was a general criticism of my specific criticisms of some of the design parameters.  Do YOU think this was in any way a valid scientific study that demonstrates (or even could rightfully be used as evidence of) anything at all?

[DrvFrShow]

I take a valium if I get a bit nervous while I'm playing. Nerves trigger vertigo. So I take the drug. It helps my game, especially my putting. So DQ me. I don't care. It's a prescription I need for my inner ear. I haven't renewed my GHIN this year because I'm not in a league.