Presidential Race 2016

[Chilli Dipper]

25 minutes ago, Braivo said:

He is pro-life, but he supports the continuation of planned parenthood as a vehicle for women's health issues. 

Every Presidential candidate for either party moves toward the middle immediately following the nomination, every single one. This is nothing new and not unexpected. 

The only issue that will lose him support if he wavers is immigration. If he softens his stance on The Wall or Muslim immigration his base will erode quickly. 

Club for Growth has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to stop Trump. He could pander to them and still not get their support, he knows this. His better play is reach left and get moderate, working class Dems to support him, which is exactly what he is doing. He is basically telling Club for Growth and the Paul Ryans of the world to shove off. He will win big without their support, in fact, these are the type of people he hopes to lay waste to in this cycle. 

When time comes to cast a ballot, even the most traditional conservatives will be unable to vote for Hillary, there is simply too much at stake with Supreme Court nominations hanging in the balance. They will hold their breath and vote for Trump, but by that point he will have won over the big majority of the working class public, which tends to sit just left of center.

That view ignores the fact that a significant number of working-class Democrats (perhaps a majority, even) are black, Latino, or Asian. No matter how much economic populism Trump runs on, his positions on immigration and Muslims, and his tacit encouragement of the strain of racism that runs through his base supporters, disqualifies him among those voters before the debate even begins.

[Braivo]

6 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

That view ignores the fact that a significant number of working-class Democrats (perhaps a majority, even) are black, Latino, or Asian. No matter how much economic populism Trump runs on, his positions on immigration and Muslims, and his tacit encouragement of the strain of racism that runs through his base supporters, disqualifies him among those voters before the debate even begins.

Whites still make up greater than 60% of the USA. Their vote still matters. What makes you think working class blacks don't hate illegal immigration as much as whites? Polling shows a majority of Americans support Trump's proposed temporary ban on Muslim immigration as well, including 34% of registered Democrats. He does not need the Hispanic vote to win this election, but I will bet he will get more of it than expected. 

[Chilli Dipper]

18 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Whites still make up greater than 60% of the USA. Their vote still matters. What makes you think working class blacks don't hate illegal immigration as much as whites? Polling shows a majority of Americans support Trump's proposed temporary ban on Muslim immigration as well, including 34% of registered Democrats. He does not need the Hispanic vote to win this election, but I will bet he will get more of it than expected. 

When a black voter sees black activists assaulted by Trump supporters at rallies, she makes up her mind before she even reaches the issues. When a Pakistani shopkeeper hears a candidate make it clear that his type aren't welcome here, he is no longer concerned with tax incentives for small businesses.

[Abu3baid]

7 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

When a black voter sees black activists assaulted by Trump supporters at rallies, she makes up his mind before she even reaches the issues. When a Pakistani shopkeeper hears a candidate make it clear that his type aren't welcome here, he is no longer concerned with tax incentives for small businesses.

Agreed.

My vote goes to Hillary.. If it was up to trump he would have me and my family stopped at the boarder locked up while they did a timeline check of where me and my kids have been in the past couple years (doesn't matter that they are all under 6), then he would find a way to strip me of my citizenship because I'm Muzlim.  Then threaten me with pig blood laced bullets if I ever thought of coming back on a plane to the states.  

[newtogolf]

6 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

When a black voter sees black activists assaulted by Trump supporters at rallies, she makes up his mind before she even reaches the issues. When a Pakistani shopkeeper hears a candidate make it clear that his type aren't welcome here, he is no longer concerned with tax incentives for small businesses.

If that's what they're hearing then they are being misinformed.  Trump, like myself, has no issue with Muslims in general, we have issues with accepting refugees that are Muslim and cannot be properly vetted to ensure they are not associated with terrorist organizations.  Trump supporters did not bias based on color, I saw a few instances where black Trump supporters attacked white liberals.  

This crap that he's a racist, sexist and xenophobic was created by the liberal media and his enemies who took statements he made out of context and refused to cover his explanation of those statements 

If you want to see where he really stands, look at his company hiring record;

Quote

Michael Cohen, Trump’s general counsel and an executive vice president at Trump Organization, said that while the billionaire’s companies employ 57 percent men and 43 percent women, “there are more female executives at the Trump Organization than there are male.”

 

5 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Agreed.

My vote goes to Hillary.. If it was up to trump he would have me and my family stopped at the boarder locked up while they did a timeline check of where me and my kids have been in the past couple years (doesn't matter that they are all under 6), then he would find a way to strip me of my citizenship because I'm Muzlim.  Then threaten me with pig blood laced bullets if I ever thought of coming back on a plane to the states.  

... and he'll have bigfoot and space aliens take you away to another planet.  

[saevel25]

19 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Whites still make up greater than 60% of the USA.

60% is all an nice if you have a higher voter turn out.

19 minutes ago, Braivo said:

What makes you think working class blacks don't hate illegal immigration as much as whites?

Who says that is a primary issue with them versus the social economical ceiling they feel is keeping them locked in what they think is substandard living?

20 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Polling shows a majority of Americans support Trump's proposed temporary ban on Muslim immigration as well, including 34% of registered Democrats.

Again, it's about importance. For Ohio Democrats, only 10% voted that terrorism was a big issue for them.

So, just because they support the proposed ban doesn't mean it's a reason worth voting Republican for.

90% of Democrats in Ohio want things done more with the economy, income inequality and health care.

25 minutes ago, Braivo said:

He does not need the Hispanic vote to win this election, but I will bet he will get more of it than expected.

No, but it can hurt him. Same with black vote and women vote. If you keep alienating more and more demographics is becomes harder to win swing states.

 

[Chilli Dipper]

14 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

If that's what they're hearing then they are being misinformed.  Trump, like myself, has no issue with Muslims in general, we have issues with accepting refugees that are Muslim and cannot be properly vetted to ensure they are not associated with terrorist organizations.

REALLY?! Let me check that statement again:

"Total and complete shutdown." No problems with Muslims in general. Really nuanced.

[Abu3baid]

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

If that's what they're hearing then they are being misinformed.  Trump, like myself, has no issue with Muslims in general, we have issues with accepting refugees that are Muslim and cannot be properly vetted to ensure they are not associated with terrorist organizations.  Trump supporters did not bias based on color, I saw a few instances where black Trump supporters attacked white liberals.  

This crap that he's a racist, sexist and xenophobic was created by the liberal media and his enemies who took statements he made out of context and refused to cover his explanation of those statements 

If you want to see where he really stands, look at his company hiring record;

 

... and he'll have bigfoot and space aliens take you away to another planet.  

I've heard plenty out of his mouth and this is a real fear that I have.. I might of exaggerated, but I will probably limit my vacations to the states while he is in power.

 

10 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

REALLY?! Let me check that statement again:

"Total and complete shutdown." No problems with Muslims in general. Really nuanced.

Yeah, my concern is pretty real when that is spewed out of his mouth.

[GolfLug]

4 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

I've heard plenty out of his mouth and this is a real fear that I have.. I might of exaggerated, but I will probably limit my vacations to the states while he is in power.

 

Yeah, my concern is pretty real when that is spewed out of his mouth.

@Abu3baid, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Racial profiling in broad daylight? Can that be ACTUALLY done?? I see threats and promises from DT no differently then other Presidential hopefuls. Easier said then done even if they mean it with all their heart. All he is doing is breaking new ground on the promises and some mind boggling threats. Resonates with a group that feels does not get heard. At some level I do understand them. For me I still am not convinced he can walk the talk, even on the 'positive' things.

I really wish Kasich was still in the hunt.  

  

[Lihu]

55 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

When a black voter sees black activists assaulted by Trump supporters at rallies, she makes up her mind before she even reaches the issues. When a Pakistani shopkeeper hears a candidate make it clear that his type aren't welcome here, he is no longer concerned with tax incentives for small businesses.

This is some what true, but primarily because people blind themselves with emotions.

I am Taiwanese or Chinese with an asterisk. When Bush first got into office he wanted to start a war with China over a spy plane issue. Some of my more conservative colleagues were asking if my loyalties fell with the US or China. I had to explain to them that I was Taiwanese, and are always on military alert*** against China. That was surprising to them. But hey, it was seriously not very far from a conflict until 911 happened.

From a quick glance, Trump looks like he wants to start a trade war with China, from my perspective it is not winnable the way some people think. It is more of a fair trade policy to ensure that China has equal access to USA made products. Chinese people trust and like USA products because our companies stand behind out products. I think it will be much more equitable than most people think. It would be virtually impossible to do what some people seem to think he stated, but in the end more manufacturing related jobs will be available in the United States.

***Not so much any more. Tensions have eased after 911 and China's admission into the G10. Taiwan will likely become part of China in the near future.

 

46 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Agreed.

My vote goes to Hillary.. If it was up to trump he would have me and my family stopped at the boarder locked up while they did a timeline check of where me and my kids have been in the past couple years (doesn't matter that they are all under 6), then he would find a way to strip me of my citizenship because I'm Muzlim.  Then threaten me with pig blood laced bullets if I ever thought of coming back on a plane to the states.  

You can look at this as a similar move to those conducted against the Japanese during WWII, but there is no real parallel between the two. For instance, Japan never had organizations like ISIS actively sponsoring terrorism in the United States. He's looking to stop easy access to the United States for everyone, and he specifically picked people from specific Islamic nations and not others because other nations do not have ISIS and other organizations that are actively trying to promote terrorism in the Unites States.

I do not think that Trump is actively encouraging racism, but rather attempting to enforce prevention of illegal entry.

As you are a businessman and have actively traveled back and forth for legitimate business, it is unlikely to affect you to the extremes you think.

 

3 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

@Abu3baid, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Racial profiling in broad daylight? Can that be ACTUALLY done?? I see threats and promises from DT no differently then other Presidential hopefuls. Easier said then done even if they mean it with all their heart. All he is doing is breaking new ground on the promises and some mind boggling threats. Resonates with a group that feels does not get heard. At some level I do understand them. For me I still am not convinced he can walk the talk, even on the 'positive' things.

I really wish Kasich was still in the hunt.  

  

Agree.

[Abu3baid]

6 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

@Abu3baid, I wouldn't be too worried about it. Racial profiling in broad daylight? Can that be ACTUALLY done?? I see threats and promises from DT no differently then other Presidential hopefuls. Easier said then done even if they mean it with all their heart. All he is doing is breaking new ground on the promises and some mind boggling threats. Resonates with a group that feels does not get heard. At some level I do understand them. For me I still am not convinced he can walk the talk, even on the 'positive' things.

I really wish Kasich was still in the hunt.  

  

I agree with you that implementing isn't going to be as easy as he makes it sound, what I was pointing out is one of the reason why I will not be voting for him.  

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is some what true, but primarily because people blind themselves with emotions.

I am Taiwanese or Chinese with an asterisk. When Bush first got into office he wanted to start a war with China over a spy plane issue. Some of my more conservative colleagues were asking if my loyalties fell with the US or China. I had to explain to them that I was Taiwanese, and are always on military alert*** against China. That was surprising to them. But hey, it was seriously not very far from a conflict until 911 happened.

From a quick glance, Trump looks like he wants to start a trade war with China, from my perspective it is not winnable the way some people think. It is more of a fair trade policy to ensure that China has equal access to USA made products. Chinese people trust and like USA products because our companies stand behind out products. I think it will be much more equitable than most people think. It would be virtually impossible to do what some people seem to think he stated, but in the end more manufacturing related jobs will be available in the United States.

***Not so much any more. Tensions have eased after 911 and China's admission into the G10. Taiwan will likely become part of China in the near future.

 

You can look at this as a similar move to those conducted against the Japanese during WWII, but there is no real parallel between the two. For instance, Japan never had organizations like ISIS actively sponsoring terrorism in the United States. He's looking to stop easy access to the United States for everyone, and he specifically picked people from specific Islamic nations and not others because other nations do not have ISIS and other organizations that are actively trying to promote terrorism in the Unites States.

I do not think that Trump is actively encouraging racism, but rather attempting to enforce prevention of illegal entry.

As you are a businessman and have actively traveled back and forth for legitimate business, it is unlikely to affect you to the extremes you think.

I would rather not find out if it will or not by ensuring that my vote counts and it goes against him.. It's too bad it will be in the state of Mass which is already a Hillary state..  :)

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

I agree with you that implementing isn't going to be as easy as he makes it sound, what I was pointing out is one of the reason why I will not be voting for him.  

I would rather not find out if it will or not by ensuring that my vote counts and it goes against him.. It's too bad it will be in the state of Mass which is already a Hillary state..  :)

Sure, and so is CA.

[Chilli Dipper]

12 minutes ago, Lihu said:

You can look at this as a similar move to those conducted against the Japanese during WWII, but there is no real parallel between the two. For instance, Japan never had organizations like ISIS actively sponsoring terrorism in the United States. He's looking to stop easy access to the United States for everyone, and he specifically picked people from specific Islamic nations and not others because other nations do not have ISIS and other organizations that are actively trying to promote terrorism in the Unites States.

I do not think that Trump is actively encouraging racism, but rather attempting to enforce prevention of illegal entry.

As you are a businessman and have actively traveled back and forth for legitimate business, it is unlikely to affect you to the extremes you think.

Trump's official position (which I posted in the video) is absolute. When he has been confronted by opponents or the press about his proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, he either says he doesn't mean it that way without providing any clarification, or he doubles down on his original remarks. With all due respect to any of Donald Trump's supporters, I don't need to hear how there are going to be exceptions and grey areas to this policy from you; I need to hear it from him how he can call for the total complete ban on Muslims entering the country while ensuring that Muslim Americans can travel abroad without the fear of not being allowed back home. I need to here it from him that the new Mayor of London, who is Muslim, will be permitted to make the numerous diplomatic trips into this country which were afforded to his predecessor. Trump hasn't explained any of that yet.

[newtogolf]

9 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Trump's official position (which I posted in the video) is absolute. When he has been confronted by opponents or the press about his proposed ban on Muslims entering the country, he either says he doesn't mean it that way without providing any clarification, or he doubles down on his original remarks. With all due respect to any of Donald Trump's supporters, I don't need to hear how there are going to be exceptions and grey areas to this policy from you; I need to hear it from him how he can call for the total complete ban on Muslims entering the country while ensuring that Muslim Americans can travel abroad without the fear of not being allowed back home. I need to here it from him that the new Mayor of London, who is Muslim, will be permitted to make the numerous diplomatic trips into this country which were afforded to his predecessor. Trump hasn't explained any of that yet.

I for one don't want anyone, including Muslims entering the country if they cannot be properly vetted.  

[jamo]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I for one don't want anyone, including Muslims entering the country if they cannot be properly vetted.  

How would you recommend we do that? What constitutes "proper vetting?"

[Chilli Dipper]

22 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I for one don't want anyone, including Muslims entering the country if they cannot be properly vetted.  

The United States has one of the most comprehensive vetting processes for accepting refugees in the world, and unlike Europe, Syrians can't just wash up on our shores after an overnight boat ride. Out of all the refugees that have been accepted into this country since 9/11, none have been charged for terrorism inside this country.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, jamo said:

How would you recommend we do that? What constitutes "proper vetting?"

Guessing he means something like Full cavity searches multiple times? 

 

[newtogolf]

41 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

The United States has one of the most comprehensive vetting processes for accepting refugees in the world, and unlike Europe, Syrians can't just wash up on our shores after an overnight boat ride. Out of all the refugees that have been accepted into this country since 9/11, none have been charged for terrorism inside this country.

Tsarnaev was born in Kyrgyzstan. As a child, he emigrated with his family to Russia and then, when he was eight years old, to the United States under political asylum.

Quote

A State Department spokesperson said of the refugees admitted through the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program since 9/11, “only about a dozen — a tiny fraction of one percent of admitted refugees — have been arrested or removed from the U.S. due to terrorism concerns that existed prior to their resettlement in the U.S.  None of them were Syrian.” The spokesperson declined to specify what exactly the security concerns were, how many of the dozen were arrested, and for what charges.

Not a big number, but not zero either.  Many of the refugees that came over in the past were easier to do background checks on than the Syrians coming over today who have no history or documentation.  

Quote

Obama plans to bring 10,000 additional Syrian Refugees to the U.S. this year, yet the FBI has already said they do not have a way to properly vet the refugees, which could cause a threat to national security.

"We don't have it under control," Mr. Michael Steinback, Assistant Director for the FBI told the House Homeland Security committee in February. "Absolutely, we're doing the best we can. If I were to say that we had it under control, then I would say I know of every single individual traveling. I don't. And I don't know every person there and I don't know everyone coming back. So it's not even close to being under control."

The chairman of the Homeland Security committee, Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), asked officials from DHS, FBI and the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), "if bringing in Syrian refugees pose a greater risk to Americans?" Steinback responded, "Yes, I'm concerned. We'll have to go take a look at those lists and go through all of those intelligence holdings and be very careful to try and identify connections to foreign terrorist groups."