Presidential Race 2016

[Lugowskins]

 

Untrustworthy Clinton, Fascist Trump, Socialist Sanders, and Slimy Cruz ... Go, Kasich!

 

 

Isn't socialism just awful I mean just look at Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark those countries are falling apart!

[chspeed]

 

A winning Trump sends a message to both parties that they need to make some positive changes in the way they govern America.

I don't know about changing how they govern, but I think he's already done enough to upend the Republican party and awaken the Democratic party to the changes in the American electorate. In my opinion, a winning Trump is too high a price to pay for change.

 

 

The politicians no longer run the government for the best of the people, they do it for the best of themselves.  We want the career politicians out so the corruption at least slows down and we start to get back to the government serving the people.  

Do you believe Trump is doing this for the best of the people?

[Ernest Jones]

 

Isn't socialism just awful I mean just look at Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark those countries are falling apart!

Yep. I literally face-palmed when Rubio said, "I think Sanders would make a great President....of FINLAND! But guess what, we don't want to be Finland, we want to be the USA!"  Yeah, that's a fine sound bite, but  if you lay off the chest thumping, flag waving bullshit and take a closer look at the differences between the two societies, I think most people would sure like their countries to be a little more like Finland. The 1% sure as hell don't want things to move in that direction which is why they spend so much money on propaganda, which far too many of the 99% quaff back like it's shit-flavoured koolaid. 

[newtogolf]

 

I don't know about changing how they govern, but I think he's already done enough to upend the Republican party and awaken the Democratic party to the changes in the American electorate. In my opinion, a winning Trump is too high a price to pay for change.

 

Do you believe Trump is doing this for the best of the people?

No one except Trump and maybe those closest to him know what his exact motivations are.  He has a good life, he's never really shown an interest in politics and I believe that he, like me and many others are sick of seeing our government make horrible deals and decisions that we ultimately pay the price for.  

8 years of GW and 8 years of Obama has placed us in a big mess, something radical needs to be done and the solution definitely isn't Bernie or Hillary.  

[Abu3baid]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

No one except Trump and maybe those closest to him know what his exact motivations are.  He has a good life, he's never really shown an interest in politics and I believe that he, like me and many others are sick of seeing our government make horrible deals and decisions that we ultimately pay the price for.  

8 years of GW and 8 years of Obama has placed us in a big mess, something radical needs to be done and the solution definitely isn't Bernie or Hillary.  

I'm pretty sure that this isn't the first time Trump has wanted to run for president..  I will share the articles I read once I have time to look for them again.  I think it was something to the tune that he never wanted to run officially if there was no chance or something like that.

[Mr. Desmond]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

No one except Trump and maybe those closest to him know what his exact motivations are.  He has a good life, he's never really shown an interest in politics and I believe that he, like me and many others are sick of seeing our government make horrible deals and decisions that we ultimately pay the price for.  

8 years of GW and 8 years of Obama has placed us in a big mess, something radical needs to be done and the solution definitely isn't Bernie or Hillary.  

Let's discuss as friends...

1.In the department of quotes we may not know - “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with this country,” Trump said. “We’re really making other people live like kings, and we’re not.” He wasn’t interested in running for president back then, but that didn’t stop the mogul from predicting how he’d fare if he did enter the race. “I think I’d win,” Trump said. “I’ll tell you what: I wouldn’t go in to lose.”

That was Donald Trump in 1988 showing an interest in politics. Come to think of it, I think a lot of people wonder "If I were King..." probably most of us. Donald has the ego, drive and money to do it.

2. GW and Obama - I can't solely blame them as the Executives of the Country. Congress passes laws and resolutions, Prez lobbies for them or against them, either signs them or does not, he carries out the laws. If I was pointing the fickle finger of blame at someone, I would point it at the Party System. The Prez is the head of a Party. I just don't like the 2 party system. I point the second finger at Congress - get a backbone.

I remember after 2012 the GOP said we must grow more inclusive ... I guess it was a nice thought.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, chspeed said:

I don't know about changing how they govern, but I think he's already done enough to upend the Republican party

Maybe

1 hour ago, chspeed said:

awaken the Democratic party

Doubt it. There is no great Democratic resurgence. There is no wave in the Democratic party right now because of Trump.

1 hour ago, chspeed said:

 the changes in the American electorate. In my opinion, a winning Trump is too high a price to pay for change.

The electorate has been changing for the past two decades.

Since 2005 the # of independents have grown by 10%. The number of Democrats have fallen by 3%. The number of Republicans have dropped by 7%.

50% of Republicans and Democrats in 2013 would support a 3rd Party candidate. 71% of independents want a 3rd party candidate. This country is shouting out for a non-extreme, true moderate party.

If you aggregate all the 3rd party wants with those who identify as Republican, Democrat or Independent you get that 59% of the country wants a 3rd party candidate. This value keeps rising each year. People just have to act instead of being all talk ;)

I think the Republican party is toast way before Trump started. They have been on a death spiral. They did a decent job throwing their money behind the Tee Party movement gain their support, but that has kind of backlashed with some more extreme members of the Tee Party who want to tear the system down.

The primary concern is that the GOP is it is an aging party. Democrats have an edge in the Latino vote and the Millennial vote (18-33). Two areas of growth for them in the future.

As of right now all that is left with those who identify as Republican are primarily the ones with strong religious beliefs, white southerners , or white men with some college degree or less.

 

 

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, Lugowskins said:

Isn't socialism just awful I mean just look at Sweden, Finland, Norway, Denmark those countries are falling apart!

Socialism is sooo bad!!!
I can not wait for Trump to become POTUS and rid us of evil socialism.

He will rid us of such evil, socialist programs as:

The Military/Defense

Department of Health and Human Service

Customs and Border Protection 

Department of Justice

National Weather Service

The White House

Government

Highways/Roads

Public Libraries

Police, Fire Dept, Postal Service

Student Loans and Grants

Bridges

CIA & FBI

War (because private companies don’t attack other Countries)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America 

[chspeed]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Doubt it. There is no great Democratic resurgence. There is no wave in the Democratic party right now because of Trump.

I respectfully disagree. I think Bernie Sanders' surge in popularity with young voters can partially be attributed to the rise of Trump. It's complicated, as they are both somewhat born of the same voter dissatisfaction. It's true that he's an Independent, but there's a long history of parties shifting and absorbing so-called independents.

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The electorate has been changing for the past two decades.

I agree with this, and yes, this has been happening for a long time. What I was responding to was a previous comment that a "winning Trump" will send a message to everyone in how to govern.

Edited March 24, 2016 by chspeed

[rehmwa]

It's worse than picking the lesser of two evils.  Which I'm tired of doing for the last couple decades.

Bernie - he'd devastate the world economy.  Maybe nothing is worse than a sincere 'true believer'.  We call them fanatics they blow up stuff and blame others for their own actions.

Hillary - a truly despicable opportunistic half human - hopefully she ends up in jail

Trump - a truly despicable opportunistic half human - with reality TV shows

Cruz - The main reason the GOP is toast.  They still think that evangelical social conservatism is better than fiscal thriftiness...He's scary for the exact same reason as extreme social liberals are scary.  Both can just stay out of my personal decisions, thank you.  And my wallet.

 

Here's another sad part - people will pick one of these guys, and, instead of wanting an opposition congress to rein in the damage......they'll use their bumper sticker driven political opinions and vote for congresspeople from the same party.....  Yeah,,,,  THAT will mitigate the damage.

The other issue is the Dems don't even realize that their choices are just as bad as the Reps.  They've drunk the cool aid for so long, they believe it.

I'll pick one (it doesn't really matter which), and then vote for Senators and Reps from the other party.  Or, I might just go 3rd party.

I'm philosophically opposed to the Dems, they are bullies and hypocrits, you are allowed to think any way you like, as long as you think as they wish.  If you don't, or if you do but phrase it slightly wrong, they'll mobilize on social media and destroy you, even if you are they side, it doesn't matter.  And the Reps are simply a tool of their evangelical fringe and they've lost me longer ago than I can recall.  They simply want to control your mind and soul - like the other guys.  The two parties are not different - they want to force a group think on everyone and then make you pay for it.  The difference is the subjective split of the social issues they are grinding.  I wouldn't be surprised if the leadership of both parties meet regularly to make sure they split the issues 50/50 to just maintain power and angst.

I simply need a party that is respectful of individual rights (not the rich only, not specific demographics only, but the individual person) but demands personal responsibility for one's choices (that they deserve to make for themselves) and fiscal thriftiness.  It's not difficult, it might even fit on a bumper sticker.

[saevel25]

5 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I respectfully disagree. I think Bernie Sanders' surge in popularity with young voters can partially be attributed to the rise of Trump.

How is that? Explain to me how Trump is making them vote for Bernie?

I think it's more to do with Bernie stating he wants to give out free education. A lot of those people are saddle with mountains of college debt.

From a poll done on demographics, Democrats have a big lead with the Millennials before Trump even announced he was running. The same group Bernie is identifying with. It was just a matter of them finding a candidate they like. They like the cool old dude over the stuck up white woman.

I am giving Trump ZERO credit for those people voting for Bernie.

8 minutes ago, chspeed said:

I agree with this, and yes, this has been happening for a long time. What I was responding to was a previous comment that a "winning Trump" will send a message to everyone in how to govern.

You mean tapping into irrational anger and fear to rule. Yea we want a demagogue as a ruler. History has shown this to be very successful (note he sarcasm). That isn't a way to govern. That isn't leadership.

 

 

[rehmwa]

30 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

the electorate has been changing for the past two decades.

Since 2005 the # of independents have grown by 10%. The number of Democrats have fallen by 3%. The number of Republicans have dropped by 7%.

50% of Republicans and Democrats in 2013 would support a 3rd Party candidate. 71% of independents want a 3rd party candidate. This country is shouting out for a non-extreme, true moderate party.

 

Your whole post is great.  The trends do indicate that a move to the founding principles of individualism is desired.

The philosophical debate should really be finding a place between pure individualism and socialistic ideas - the right balance.

The socialistic side is actually represented by both of today's parties - it's why government grows and the two parties are fighting over which vision of spending and 'support' is paramount.  They like it this way.  You can also see why whenever a surge to something that represents individualism is attacked by both sides, or absorbed/overwhelmed by the social nutbags (look at what happened to the Tea Party - it was taken over by the evangelicals on the Right, it was purposely mischaracterized by the Left as evangelicals.  By the time it was over, it was self fulfilled.......)

We have two versions of social lite - the tension is an illusion....We need one version of social lite (the Dems are fine for that), and another version of Libertarian lite (the GOP needs to go away or redefine to fill that demand) - those are the true opposing visions that we have to find a balance between.

[pumaAttack]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

How is that? Explain to me how Trump is making them vote for Bernie?

I think it's more to do with Bernie stating he wants to give out free education. A lot of those people are saddle with mountains of college debt.

From a poll done on demographics, Democrats have a big lead with the Millennials before Trump even announced he was running. The same group Bernie is identifying with. It was just a matter of them finding a candidate they like. They like the cool old dude over the stuck up white woman.

I am giving Trump ZERO credit for those people voting for Bernie.

You mean tapping into irrational anger and fear to rule. Yea we want a demagogue as a ruler. History has shown this to be very successful (note he sarcasm). That isn't a way to govern. That isn't leadership.

 

 

Yup.

When I went to the Democratic caucus, the Denver University students were at my caucus and they all claimed Bernie would give us free College eduction...  It is basically like the student body president promising free soda machines in the cafeteria...

[Mr. Desmond]

^^^  @rehmwa

From the department of let's not get carried away, Bernie's record shows he is not a fanatic. I read a long article on his time as mayor of Burlington, VT and he had a good record of making its government more efficient, overhauling its pension system for more efficiency and cooperating and working with businesses and developers. He was open to listening to all sides.

And Bernie has a point. As an older guy who voted for Reagan (twice), I have seen the wealthy take more and more of the nation's wealth concentrated into fewer people. I think several reasons exist - a global economy where traditional labor is less favored, and regulations/compensation favoring upper management. Perhaps the government has not adjusted to the speed of the global economy and its effect on workers -- Bernie strikes a cord. At the same time, I do not see solutions from anyone. Guess I would treat this as a business-government cooperative project to bring more industry into the USA.

I wish we would look for real-life solutions to our issues instead of this blame game thing that seems unproductive. Good luck to you.

[Jeremie Boop]

It just scares me that these are the options we have.... Not one of them is someone I feel comfortable supporting. Though some are worse than others, the one I would have probably felt ok voting for has no chance so I'm stuck either voting for someone I don't want or just abstaining from voting.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, saevel25 said:

@iacas, where is the option to click other?

Those are the only people who have a chance to win so far as everyone who actually follow politics says. So I don't care if you're a vote-waster.

2 hours ago, chspeed said:

Do you believe Trump is doing this for the best of the people?

As an outsider to politics, I think I have a hard time thinking he's doing it for himself. If he's elected, he won't be able to run his businesses. He will make less money. He'll be doing something with which he's not familiar. He'll be forced, by law, to work with and concede a ton of points and issues to other people (Congress, etc.).

What's his upside? He's wealthy and has built a life doing business stuff.

So what's his upside? Maybe he legitimately, honestly felt the pull of public service?

I don't know. But from an outsider perspective, he seems to be willing to give up five years of his life for this. Possibly nine.

1 hour ago, Mr. Desmond said:

1.In the department of quotes we may not know - “If it got so bad, I would never want to rule it out totally, because I really am tired of seeing what’s happening with this country,” Trump said. “We’re really making other people live like kings, and we’re not.” He wasn’t interested in running for president back then, but that didn’t stop the mogul from predicting how he’d fare if he did enter the race. “I think I’d win,” Trump said. “I’ll tell you what: I wouldn’t go in to lose.”

That was Donald Trump in 1988 showing an interest in politics. Come to think of it, I think a lot of people wonder "If I were King..." probably most of us. Donald has the ego, drive and money to do it.

I don't think that's showing an interest. We've all thought "If I were President…" and that doesn't count. He was answering a question, was he not?

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Those are the only people who have a chance to win so far as everyone who actually follow politics says. So I don't care if you're a vote-waster.

You get enough wasted votes and they don't become wasted anymore ;)

[rehmwa]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

 

Good luck to you.

It's possible, that I might just open up a bit with you guys......  ; )

(I'm afraid the whole point was the department of getting carried away - it's a wry mockery of the caricatures we're dealing with)

I still voting for Pinestraw.  Here's another new meme that's been going around....It's how our voting choice feels....