Presidential Race 2016

[Chilli Dipper]

18 minutes ago, Braivo said:

In all fairness, I do not belive Trump has any trouble communicating his position, negotiating a deal, or getting things done. 

That makes one of us who believes that.

[Braivo]

1 minute ago, Chilli Dipper said:

That makes one of us who believes that.

Whether you like his methods or persona are irrelevant.

He owns a company worth billions of dollars, has a beautiful, successful family, and disposed of 16 highly qualified contenders in the GOP primaries. He gets things done. 

[Mr. Desmond]

6 hours ago, newtogolf said:

He was eloquent but he didn't answer the entire question which is why does Chicago (Obama's home town which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the country) lead the nation in gun crimes and murders.  He also doesn't acknowledge that background checks are already required to purchase guns, it's a Federal law.  

If you spew the same speech countless times you eventually know it well enough that you don't need a telepromtper

Not to enter or make a political opinion, but if other states do not have strict gun laws and we know that loopholes in the ability to purchase a gun exist are exploited (or are obtained illegally), does not that tell you that anyone can obtain a gun fairly easily if motivated?

Call me nutz or something else, but it seems certain that even when you have strict gun control laws in a limited area, if one can exploit loopholes or go outside that limited area to obtain a gun, then effective gun control is extremely limited within one city.  

Make sense? That answers the question, I think.

Now back to the politics. I make no opinion on the race.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Braivo said:

Whether you like his methods or persona are irrelevant.

They are very much relevant to many people. 

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

and disposed of 16 highly qualified contenders in the GOP primaries. 

That is questionable, not that he beat the GOP contenders, but if they were highly qualified. .

 

[drmevo]

21 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I don't know of a single politician that actually apologizes for anything until backed into a corner and advised by staff that an 'apology' would play better with drones they buy votes from

I very much suspect any sincerity from Hillary on any of her vast mistakes.  (Perhaps deep down she just HAS to feel some guilt over threatening Bill's molestation victims....I hope there is at least that much humanity in there.  I doubt it, but I hope so)

Fair enough, but I'll take that over never admitting wrong-doing, no matter how boneheaded they act.  We can all guess how public figures really feel about things, and maybe fairly accurately in some cases, but we can only really judge them based on their words and actions, no?

On your second paragraph, I'd be genuinely interested in seeing the evidence of that.  If you have any you'd care to share, from a relatively non-partisan source, please feel free to PM me some links if you'd rather not post them here.

[StevenR84]

300 Million people in the country and these 2 clowns are the best we can do. We are so doomed. Time to just enjoy what you can while you can.

[Elmer]

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Whether you like his methods or persona are irrelevant.

He owns a company worth billions of dollars, has a beautiful, successful family, and disposed of 16 highly qualified contenders in the GOP primaries. He gets things done. 

"He owns a company worth billions of dollars"- He has refused to release his tax returns, therefore we can not be sure of his exact worth
http://www.forbes.com/sites/berniekent/2016/06/07/what-you-need-to-know-about-trumps-tax-return-disclosure-controversy-part-one/#1aa9b35b4d93

"has a beautiful, successful family," Beautiful only matters in a pageant, not POTUS.
I would also say it is easy to be "successful" when you start out well off.
Find me a self made billionare, not someone who turned his father's $300 million fortune to $305 Million!

"16 highly qualified contenders" once again strict opinion. There were probably 5 "qualified" contenders in that clown car!

[Braivo]

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

They are very much relevant to many people. 

That is questionable, not that he beat the GOP contenders, but if they were highly qualified. .

 

Not relevant in the context of the discussion we were having, but relevant overall. 

To your second point - I can agree with you there. 

2 minutes ago, StevenR84 said:

300 Million people in the country and these 2 clowns are the best we can do. We are so doomed. Time to just enjoy what you can while you can.

Enjoy the decline is always an option. I don't hate on those that see it as the best one. 

[Braivo]

10 minutes ago, Elmer said:

"He owns a company worth billions of dollars"- He has refused to release his tax returns, therefore we can not be sure of his exact worth
http://www.forbes.com/sites/berniekent/2016/06/07/what-you-need-to-know-about-trumps-tax-return-disclosure-controversy-part-one/#1aa9b35b4d93

Even Forbes, which hates Trump, pegs his net worth at $4.5b. http://www.forbes.com/donald-trump/#7f839caa790b

10 minutes ago, Elmer said:

"has a beautiful, successful family," Beautiful only matters in a pageant, not POTUS.
I would also say it is easy to be "successful" when you start out well off.
Find me a self made billionare, not someone who turned his father's $300 million fortune to $305 Million!

So a man that starts with some resources and turns them into more resources is somehow less qualified than, say, Faceberg who made his billions off of one insane series of events? 

I simply do not buy the argument that since Donald started out with some of his dad's money that he's less qualified as a businessman. 

10 minutes ago, Elmer said:

"16 highly qualified contenders" once again strict opinion. There were probably 5 "qualified" contenders in that clown car!

This is a great example of how Trump makes his points. He says he raised $6m for veterans, the media says "no you didn't, you only raised $5.6m!" Meanwhile, the fact that he raised millions for veterans is all over the news for days. 

So, here, he still was the top vote getter out of 6 "qualified" contenders, as you say. Not only top, but broke the all-time record for GOP primary votes. 

Edited June 9, 2016 by Braivo

[drmevo]

3 minutes ago, Braivo said:

This is a great example of how Trump makes his points. He says he raised $6m for veterans, the media says "no you didn't, you only raised $5.6m!" Meanwhile, the fact that he raised millions for veterans is all over the news for days. 

Um, I think you're being a bit loose with the facts.  I think it was more like, he got called out for only paying a fraction of what he said he had donated, and on that same day he somehow came up with the rest.

[bplewis24]

2 hours ago, Gunther said:

Nah, this was no big deal.  Nothing that hasn't been said about white judges for 100 years.

The judge is clearly biased against Trump but it's based on his politics, i.e., open borders, Clinton supporter, etc.  It's probably true that his politics were largely shaped by his ethnicity but that's hard to nail down.

Trump was in artful in how he explained his meaning, I wish he was better at that kind of thing (I wished the same of Bush) but this will pass.  He's not a racist.  

The media thought they had him and went on a witch hunt and some cowardly Republicans backed away out of fear but this will have no bearing on the election in November.

Yeah, I'll pretty much have to disagree with you on all counts.  As to whether or not Trump is a racist, I'll just say that for me, the distinction between whether somebody is a racist or just says a bunch of racist things is unimportant.

16 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Um, I think you're being a bit loose with the facts.  I think it was more like, he got called out for only paying a fraction of what he said he had donated, and on that same day he somehow came up with the rest.

Or to be more direct: Trump made some stuff up, and when the media called him out on it, he finally followed through with what he claimed to have already done.

Edited June 9, 2016 by bplewis24

[Ernest Jones]

1 minute ago, bplewis24 said:

Yeah, I'll pretty much have to disagree with you on all counts.  As to whether or not Trump is a racist, I'll just say that for me, the distinction between whether somebody is a racist or just says a bunch of racist things is unimportant.

This^^^

"I'm not a racist, only my actions are", doesn't cut it, for obvious reasons.

[Gunther]

3 minutes ago, bplewis24 said:

Yeah, I'll pretty much have to disagree with you on all counts.  As to whether or not Trump is a racist, I'll just say that for me, the distinction between whether somebody is a racist or just says a bunch of racist things is unimportant.

All counts?  Hmmm

1.  It IS a big deal - OK

2.  This has NOT been said about white judges?

3.  The judge is NOT biased against Trump based on his politics?

4.  His politics were NOT shaped by his ethnicity?  OK, could be true, which is why I qualified with "probably".

5.  Trump was artful in his explanation? 

6.  This episode will never pass?

7.  Trump IS a racist? Ok, lots of people think that.

8.  The media actually DO have him and will destroy him over this?

9.  The Republicans who jumped ship are NOT cowards?  Ok, from your perspective I can see it.

10.  This will cost him the election?  Doubtful.

[rehmwa]

54 minutes ago, drmevo said:

, but we can only really judge them based on their words and actions, no?

 

Agreed.  I actually go so far as to really only judge them by their actions.  "words" pretty much being do the actions match the words - still actions.

[Braivo]

If I felt Donald Trump was a racist I would not support him. I see zero evidence from his 30-40 yrs in the public spotlight that indicates he is racist, or sexist, at all. 

30+ years with every major publication searching feverishly for any possible story that could stump Trump and nothing. No one has come out and said "Donald Trump treated me poorly because I am black, or a woman." 

35 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Um, I think you're being a bit loose with the facts.  I think it was more like, he got called out for only paying a fraction of what he said he had donated, and on that same day he somehow came up with the rest.

They only found that he hadn't yet written the checks. How much money did other candidates raise for veterans? Perhaps Jeb! could have donated the $100m spend on his lousy campaign to a better cause. 

[Dave2512]

One thing that I am curious about regarding this thread going back to the locked Trump thread is many of the now pro Trump members weren't so hot on him a few months ago. I don't remember exactly who was supporting who but if you started this cycle as a Rand Paul or JEB supporter haven't you had to go through a lot of Ideological shape shifting to get from there to Trump.

[Elmer]

3 minutes ago, Braivo said:

 

They only found that he hadn't yet written the checks. How much money did other candidates raise for veterans? Perhaps Jeb! could have donated the $100m spend on his lousy campaign to a better cause. 

As has been pointed out to me on this thread many, many times. It does not matter what others have done.
It matters what Trump said he did, but did not do, until he was called out for not doing what he said he had done!
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/02/upshot/putting-donald-trumps-1-million-for-veterans-in-context.html?_r=0

[Ernest Jones]

17 minutes ago, Braivo said:

If I felt Donald Trump was a racist I would not support him. I see zero evidence from his 30-40 yrs in the public spotlight that indicates he is racist, or sexist, at all. 

30+ years with every major publication searching feverishly for any possible story that could stump Trump and nothing. No one has come out and said "Donald Trump treated me poorly because I am black, or a woman." 

They only found that he hadn't yet written the checks. How much money did other candidates raise for veterans? Perhaps Jeb! could have donated the $100m spend on his lousy campaign to a better cause. 

First one that popped up on google. I didn't read it, but there are quite a few others as well.