2016 Wells Fargo Championship Discussion Thread

[Chilli Dipper]

8 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

Disagree.  

There is a difference between intent with a purpose and an accident.  For the rule to cover both the same is ludicrous. 

If people don't see it, they can't prove the difference, and there are a lot of rules in this game that are built on that assumption that apply even when TV cameras are capturing every player's move.

[Missouri Swede]

4 hours ago, pumaAttack said:

The rule even says "purposely" 

I'd love to hear how he purposely altered the club by smacking his head.  "Just one more whack and I'll be able to sink this next putt no problem!"  

Even rule 4-2 doesn't cover this...

 

3 hours ago, pumaAttack said:

That would be "Purposely" by definition. Hitting your club on your head in anger is not purposely changing the clubface...

The rule is set up by the words they chose to allow an incident like this.  Instead they DQ him for it... Blown call 

 

2 hours ago, pumaAttack said:

Disagree.  

There is a difference between intent with a purpose and an accident.  For the rule to cover both the same is ludicrous. 

You're looking at the wrong rule.  This was intentionally striking his head.  The relevant rule is 4-3b:

Quote

4-3. Damaged Clubs: Repair and Replacement

b. Damage Other Than in Normal Course of Play 

If, during a stipulated round, a player's club is damaged other than in the normal course of play rendering it non-conforming or changing its playing characteristics, the club must not subsequently be used or replaced during the round. 

Penalty for Breach of Rule 4-3b: 

Disqualification.

To answer questions about whether hitting yourself in the head with your putter could be considered the Normal Course of Play, the decisions have addressed this (I bolded the relevant line):

Quote

4-3/1

Meaning of Damage Sustained in "Normal Course of Play"

Q.In Rule 4-3a, what is meant by the term "normal course of play"?

A.The term "normal course of play" is intended to cover all reasonable acts but specifically excludes cases of abuse.

In addition to making a stroke, practice swing or practice stroke, examples of acts that are in the "normal course of play" include the following:

- removing or replacing a club in the bag;

- using a club to search for or retrieve a ball (except by throwing the club);

- leaning on a club while waiting to play, teeing a ball or removing a ball from the hole; or

- accidentally dropping a club.

Examples of acts that are not in the "normal course of play" include the following:

- throwing a club whether in anger, in retrieving a ball, or otherwise;

- "slamming" a club into a bag; or

- intentionally striking something (e.g., the ground or a tree) with the club other than during a stroke, practice swing or practice stroke.

I can see your point that the damage to the putter was accidental.  But the act that caused the damage was intentional.

Also note that they include some actions other than a stroke or swing as within the normal course of play.  Leaning on it, dropping it, prying a ball out of the hole--all would be normal course of play.  So would be using it as a cane to walk:

Quote

4-3/7

 Club Broken While Used as Cane

Q.A player uses one of his clubs as a cane while climbing a hill and the shaft breaks. May he replace the club during the round?

A.Yes. A club broken in such circumstances is considered to have become "damaged in the normal course of play" as its use as a cane is considered a reasonable act - see Decision 4-3/1.

One related decision relates to a habit I've seen in Graeme McDowell's pre-shot routine with his driver.  I've noticed that he tends to hit the clubhead against the ground before he addresses the ball.  (At least watching him on broadcasts, it seems rather firm.  I've not seen him in person. I know that one TST member has played with him:@David in FL, do you recall this, or is it just amped up microphones on the teeing grounds?)  Anyway, decision 4-3/9 says that "a club broken by hitting it hard on the ground or tapping it on the ground is not considered to have become 'damaged in the normal course of play' as such actions are not considered reasonable acts - see Decision 4-3/1."  So if it broke, he wouldn't be allowed to replace it during the round (at least as far as I see what the rule says).

[pumaAttack]

@Missouri Swede

So basically the only difference is that he bent his club in anger?  Again I think it's a silly rule and bad interpretation of the rules. 

Again, none of your decisions stat hitting a club on ones own head.  So the rules relate a tree trunk to a human head?

[saevel25]

15 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

@Missouri Swede

So basically the only difference is that he bent his club in anger?  Again I think it's a silly rule and bad interpretation of the rules. 

Again, none of your decisions stat hitting a club on ones own head.  So the rules relate a tree trunk to a human head?

Hitting your head is not part of the normal course of play. It doesn't involved hiking any steep terrain on the course or hitting a tree. 

[Chilli Dipper]

9 minutes ago, pumaAttack said:

@Missouri Swede

So basically the only difference is that he bent his club in anger?  Again I think it's a silly rule and bad interpretation of the rules. 

Again, none of your decisions stat hitting a club on ones own head.  So the rules relate a tree trunk to a human head?

You wouldn't hit either in normal play (unless your ball was resting against them), so the rules treat them as the same.

Here's the deal. The rules are very generous about treating a club damaged during normal play: you may use, repair, or replace the club at your discretion during the round, provided you cause no delay. Damaging a club in an avoidable or unjustifiable way grants the player no favors: anything else would invite abuse to the rule in question.

Unfortunately for Zac Blair, that includes bending the shaft of your putter over your head, whether intentional or not, whether the alteration provides an advantage or not. What he did was careless, and this game tends to punish carelessness in regard to the rules severely.

[Chilli Dipper]

Rules debates aside...

I thought this was going to be Rory's week to remind us all he's still in the picture, but it looks like Rickie is making his intentions known before defending his Players title. Great round today.

[RFKFREAK]

14 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Rules debates aside...

I thought this was going to be Rory's week to remind us all he's still in the picture, but it looks like Rickie is making his intentions known before defending his Players title. Great round today.

Rory's been so inconsistent this season. 

Phil with an 8 on 18 today. 

[Missouri Swede]

3 hours ago, pumaAttack said:

@Missouri Swede

Again, none of your decisions stat hitting a club on ones own head.  So the rules relate a tree trunk to a human head?

"Intentionally striking something (e.g., the ground or a tree) with the club other than during a stroke..." Yes, both a tree trunk and a human head are included in the category of "something."

1 hour ago, RFKFREAK said:

Phil with an 8 on 18 today. 

That's probably my fault. He wanted me to feel better about my triple bogey today. 

[RFKFREAK]

Nice job by Phil and Rory today.

I'm rooting for Hahn of those that are still playing.  Maybe it's because he seemed to embrace the Waste Management Open a few years ago but I like him. 

[Chilli Dipper]

Big names make big moves on Sunday, and what we get is a playoff between James Hahn and Roberto Castro.

Expect nothing on the PGA Tour these days.

[RFKFREAK]

2 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Big names make big moves on Sunday, and what we get is a playoff between James Hahn and Roberto Castro.

Expect nothing on the PGA Tour these days.

I just looked up Roberto Castro and found out his mother is Costa Rican.

Seeing that his mother is a Tica, I must now root for him to win. 

[newtogolf]

I was surprised to see an Orange whip in Castro's Hahn's bag, I thought pro's weren't allowed to have training clubs in their bag, is that a new rule?  

[Chilli Dipper]

7 minutes ago, RFKFREAK said:

I just looked up Roberto Castro and found out his mother is Costa Rican.

Seeing that his mother is a Tica, I must now root for him to win. 

It's better than that: Roberto Castro is Costa Rican, but he's also 3/4 Swedish.

3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I was surprised to see an Orange whip in Castro's bag, I thought pro's weren't allowed to have training clubs in their bag, is that a new rule?  

Training aids are allowed in the bag, so long as the player doesn't use them during a round. I looked that up a few years ago after seeing so many pros carry alignment sticks in their bags.

[RFKFREAK]

21 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

It's better than that: Roberto Castro is Costa Rican, but he's also 3/4 Swedish.

 

Really?  The article I read said his mother is Costa Rican and his father is from Peru.  It didn't say anything about him being Swedish.

[Chilli Dipper]

10 minutes ago, RFKFREAK said:

Really?  The article I read said his mother is Costa Rican and his father is from Peru.  It didn't say anything about him being Swedish.

His paternal grandfather was the only one who wasn't a Swedish immigrant.

[RFKFREAK]

Just now, Chilli Dipper said:

His paternal grandfather is the only one who wasn't a Swedish immigrant.

Yeah, I gathered that that would have to be the case based on his last name.

How did you find out he's 3/4 Swedish? 

[nevets88]

YOU GO JAMES HAHN! YES! Kostis, you forget to ask him what golf related YouTube channels he watches. 

 

 

[Chilli Dipper]

Is this PXG's first win on the PGA Tour? I don't think any of their other staffers have a win this year.