Too Much Shaft Lean - Instagram

[Phil McGleno]

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

Do you have thoughts here?

I have a few.

1. The left picture looks fine to me too.
2. This is a drill.-That was not made clear in the first post.
3. You can have too much shaft lean.
4. Hitting the ball high is a good thing if done properly.
5. You will lose clubhead speed with too much shaft lean.

I'm adding a thread here because I saw @iacas commented on the first Instagram picture.

[newtogolf]

Thanks for posting @Phil McGleno I find that I have problems releasing the club properly when I have too much shaft lean.   Is that common or just something that is wrong with my swing?  

[DeadMan]

Why would shaft lean have any impact on compression? I mean, if getting more shaft lean results in a more centered strike, then sure. But wouldn't the ball be compressed exactly the same amount with either the picture on the left and right with the same centered strike? 

Also, that drill resulted in a pretty bad toe strike (watch the club rotate after impact). Doubt that helps compression...

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2013/02/compress-the-golf-ball

Do you have thoughts here?

I have a few.

1. The left picture looks fine to me too.
2. This is a drill.-That was not made clear in the first post.
3. You can have too much shaft lean.
4. Hitting the ball high is a good thing if done properly.
5. You will lose clubhead speed with too much shaft lean.

I'm adding a thread here because I saw @iacas commented on the first Instagram picture.

All good points. Doesn't the SS matter a bit too?

Meaning if you de-loft and get a less oblique hit on the ball that will tend to reduce spin for a given SS. And you will tend to have a lower trajectory. With a lower trajectory, you still need spin to keep the ball in the air and that comes from an already high SS, yes (meaning a player who has SS to spare and whose high trajectory shots are just ballooning anyway - not that you will gain SS with shaft lean)?

So extra shaft lean (relative to the first picture) is not really advisable unless you can generate that extra SS?

Edited May 22, 2016 by natureboy

[nevets88]

Imho, think that some people seeing this will chase that post impact look rather than swing more freely, less contrived.

The improved swing grip looks awfully strong (L) and that glove emblem is showing for a long time.

It would have been nice to provide the original swing video, not just impact. Black pants make it harder to see how much hip turn there is. Maybe Rice thinks his hips are over-rotated?

Deformation, not compression! Yeah, yeah, semantics.   

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Why would shaft lean have any impact on compression?

Which has more compression: a lob wedge or a 1-iron? The flatter (less lofted) the clubface, the more energy is transferred to the ball because the less glancing the impact.

35 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

But wouldn't the ball be compressed exactly the same amount with either the picture on the left and right with the same centered strike? 

No. You "compress" a 4-iron more than you "compress" (I prefer "deform") your pitching wedge. Even if they're hit with the same swing speed, that is. Smash factor is higher.

11 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Imho, think that some people seeing this will chase that post impact look rather than swing more freely, less contrived.

That is my concern as well. The drill image is overdone. It's nowhere near Key #3.

I'd love to have seen this in person because the first image doesn't look that bad. Maybe he stuck it in the ground a little and the dirt grabbed the clubhead and faked an inline impact look, when really it was going to be a little flip?

11 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

It would have been nice to provide the original swing video, not just impact. Black pants make it harder to see how much hip turn there is. Maybe Rice thinks his hips are over-rotated?

Yeah, the original would have been nice, too. I agree.

[natureboy]

6 hours ago, natureboy said:

All good points. Doesn't the SS matter a bit too?

Meaning if you de-loft and get a less oblique hit on the ball that will tend to reduce spin for a given SS. And you will tend to have a lower trajectory. With a lower trajectory, you still need spin to keep the ball in the air and that comes from an already high SS, yes (meaning a player who has SS to spare and whose high trajectory shots are just ballooning anyway - not that you will gain SS with shaft lean)?

So extra shaft lean (relative to the first picture) is not really advisable unless you can generate that extra SS?

Re-read that and it wasn't well worded.

Basically, is shaft lean of much value to an average or high HCP who doesn't generate much SS? If they don't have the SS to get a 2 or 3-iron in the air at the true loft, would de-lofting their irons through the bag really gain them much?

[iacas]

3 hours ago, natureboy said:

Basically, is shaft lean of much value to an average or high HCP who doesn't generate much SS? If they don't have the SS to get a 2 or 3-iron in the air at the true loft, would de-lofting their irons through the bag really gain them much?

Yes. Not for a 2- or 3-iron. Shaft lean (Key #3 deals with that specifically) is important throughout the set to deliver the proper loft and a clean strike.

It takes a pretty low swing speed (older women? Kids?), and you account for that by increasing loft or not giving them a club with less loft than maybe a 6-iron, and having 16° loft on their drivers.

Flipping is never good for full swings.

[billchao]

I'm with the others here: the original swing in its entirety would have been good to see. As it is, the imact position on the left looks pretty good to me, but it could also just be a well timed flip by a talented player.

Saying the position on the right is better and that's what they achieved after doing drills will mislead people into thinking that's what their impact position should look like. Too much shaft lean will launch the ball too low with not enough spin which isn't exactly ideal for playing golf either.

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Flipping is never good for full swings.

Wasn't suggesting that. Was talking about 'exaggerated' / extra shaft lean & possible diminishing returns for players with lower SS.

[Buckeyebowman]

I guess there's different strokes for different folks. Some years ago I watched an LPGA tournament, and I have to think it was one of the biggies. There was a woman in contention who could have been the poster child for the phrase "hitting down on the ball"! She slammed the club so hard into the back of the ball and then the dirt it was awesome! The shafts of her clubs would go through such gyrations it was unbelievable!

The commentators didn't care so much about her ball flight, it was excellent. What they worried about was her health, particularly the health of her wrist, elbow, and shoulder joints after swinging a club like that!

[ladders11]

^ Probably Lexi Thompson, she slams into the ground, and really jumps up with her left leg, swiveling her left foot around after impact. Huge divots, no release with her hands. Apparently she is phenomenally consistent, every swing the same, so this is what makes it work.

[mchepp]

Somehow I missed this the first time around. My thoughts are that the second swing is a fraud. What I mean is that II would be fine if the instructor said this is an exaggeration, and not necessarily the final position. in which case I would be fine with it, but it is portrayed as the finished product or more or less where he should be. As a finished product I am worried it will give the player the wrong idea.