Looking for quality shots and swing over low scores

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, Groucho Valentine said:

 You would really take a higher score if you can hit a few more "good" shots a round? I dont get that. 

Many times I would. Like I stated before, maybe it's because I can't shoot a "good" score.

If we played, I have no hope of beating you. I can, however, hit a couple of shots a round better..

[Lihu]

34 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Good to me means I know the shot can't be improved upon that it's the best shot with the best result that I can achieve. If I was to start chasing that I'd play many rounds of miserable golf because it doesn't happen often. My scores don't wary as much as the quality of my shots do.

That kind of how I perceive it.

43 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

I don't only feel better about the shots. I appreciate both, just prefer to know I earned it

Agree 100%.

[Dave2512]

1 minute ago, 14ledo81 said:

If we played, I have no hope of beating you. I can, however, hit a couple of shots a round better..

Better than who, a scratch golfer? No way no how and if it happened you wouldn't have actually done anything it just wouold have happened. I can't conjure a great shot when I need it. If I could I wouldn't suck. The guy in our league that plays to + ish hits the same shot over and over like a machine.

[Lihu]

13 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Better than who, a scratch golfer? No way no how and if it happened you wouldn't have actually done anything it just wouold have happened. I can't conjure a great shot when I need it. If I could I wouldn't suck. The guy in our league that plays to + ish hits the same shot over and over like a machine.

+ golfers are kind of like "robots".

I think they play a boring game. I'd rather have some variety in my game, and my current playing ability gives me all the variety that I want and more!

[Natural Patrick]

Low scores for me. I always remember the good shots from a good round or a bad round. Funny because after a good round, I'm mostly thinking about the bad shots that kept me from having a Great round."clear as mud right"  

[Dave2512]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

+ golfers are kind of like "robots".

I think they play a boring game. I'd rather have some variety in my game, and my current playing ability gives me all the variety that I want and more!

I don't think they play boring golf but I won't confuse any of my shots with theirs. The guys in the 3-6 range are a little wobbly probably couldn't tell who was who just watching them but the scratch guys are different. My good shots aren't like their good shots, there really isn't much crossover.

My great once a season shots are better than their average shot but it's a once in a forever waiting period between. That is what I am getting at with my responses. My good shots when I was a 15 handicap are like my so-so shots now. Two years ago I hit a 342 yard drive. I felt like I looked like Adam Scott when it hit it. Everything felt different, the sound was different, the flight was different than my usual shot and it flew like a rocket. I'll likely never hit a drive like that again, my best are in the 310-320 range above average is anything 270+. Good and in the fairway around 250ish makes me happy but it's not good enough I want to pat myself on the back just because I didn't knock it into someone's yard.

[14ledo81]

2 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Better than who, a scratch golfer? No way no how and if it happened you wouldn't have actually done anything it just wouold have happened. I can't conjure a great shot when I need it. If I could I wouldn't suck. The guy in our league that plays to + ish hits the same shot over and over like a machine.

Nahh. Every now and then I make solid contact and hit it inside 10' from 100-150 out. Even tour pros don't do that all the time.  I think that's the beauty of golf.  I will never dunk a basketball or throw a football 50 yards in the air. Every now and then though, I can beat a tour pro at one shot.

[Dave2512]

5 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Nahh. Every now and then I make solid contact and hit it inside 10' from 100-150 out. Even tour pros don't do that all the time.  I think that's the beauty of golf.  I will never dunk a basketball or throw a football 50 yards in the air. Every now and then though, I can beat a tour pro at one shot.

Sure but how close, how far or whatever doesn't mean we do the same thing as better players we got lucky. My solid co tact shots don't flight like a pros no Mayer how close I stick it. 

I've twice shot low gross in league partnered with lower handicap members. They still played better than me. Championship flight is scratch to 9. 

[Jeremie Boop]

19 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Sure but how close, how far or whatever doesn't mean we do the same thing as better players we got lucky. My solid co tact shots don't flight like a pros no Mayer how close I stick it. 

I've twice shot low gross in league partnered with lower handicap members. They still played better than me. Championship flight is scratch to 9. 

So, basically you are saying that unless a shot is "like the pros" it's not a good shot? Regardless of whether it's the distance and target the person was going for *with proper flight, not a low runner/lucky bounce scenario*? I've no illusions about how good I am, I'm a pretty crappy golfer, but I am pretty sure that my good shot is at least as good as your good shot. The main difference is you hit much fewer bad shots than I do. Granted, what you call a bad shot and what I call a bad shot may not be quite the same though. For example, you may call a shot that's the right distance but just off the green a bad shot, I'd call it a decent shot. I would call it a bad shot if it's bladed over, fatted short, or way off to the side. However, a good shot is a good shot most times. An approach inside of 10 feet, a drive 280+ in the fairway, a shot that's 200+ that hits the green, for a majority of people those are all "good shots". I'm not talking great shots, like career shots, sticking it to tap in range with a mid to long iron or making an albatross or anything of that nature because those aren't even all that common for pro's to do. Regardless, good scores are nice, no doubt, but knowing I'm making more good shots per round means I'm improving and that those scores are going to come down as well. Tracking how many good shots I have a round and seeing if they are increasing tells me as much, or more, about my overall improvement than looking at what I scored on those rounds.

[JonMA1]

@Dave2512, I have to respectfully disagree. 

A good shot is whatever we consider good, not anyone else. It's tied to our ability - not a tour pro or someone who averages 15 strokes fewer per round. And to call it luck after all the work most of us put into trying to squeeze just a bit more skill out of what little natural ability we have, just isn't accurate.

When you bring someone out to a golf course for the first time, they baseball swing at the ball, slice it 20° right, bounce it off a tree, and roll it back onto the green... that's a lucky shot.

Hitting the middle of the fairway, 10 yards beyond one's average with the driver isn't luck. Neither is hitting a green with a mid iron. A punch shot struck just right so that it stays below a branch but has enough speed to bounce and run onto the green isn't luck either. Or a 3/4 swing with a wedge where you've dropped the club just right to flight the ball high, land it on the front of the green and watch it roll 5 or so feet to within 10 feet of the pin - exactly how you pictured it. 

I make these shots every time I play golf, and it's no more luck when I do than it is bad luck when I don't.

The reality is that I have just enough skill to make these shots 10 plus times per round but not nearly enough to make them the majority of the time. That's why I shoot in the 90's.

It looks like @Jeremie Boop beat me to most of my points.

Edited June 28, 2016 by JonMA1
typo

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Dave2512 said:

Sure but how close, how far or whatever doesn't mean we do the same thing as better players we got lucky. My solid contact shots don't flight like a pros no Mayer how close I stick it. 

I've twice shot low gross in league partnered with lower handicap members. They still played better than me. Championship flight is scratch to 9. 

In absolute terms, I would say this is true. However, "goodness" is a relative term based upon handicap. Agreed, that we should find it difficult to compare shots between a scratch and a bogey golfer, but the goodness of a shot is what you already quoted as the best possible shot you can make.

 

39 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

So, basically you are saying that unless a shot is "like the pros" it's not a good shot?

I don't think so, and it is relative to your ability. No one gets angry when they don't make shots like a pro. . .

 

28 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

@Jeremie BoopA good shot is whatever we consider good, not anyone else. It's tied to our ability. . .

Agreed.

[newtogolf]

2 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

Sure but how close, how far or whatever doesn't mean we do the same thing as better players we got lucky. My solid co tact shots don't flight like a pros no Mayer how close I stick it. 

I've twice shot low gross in league partnered with lower handicap members. They still played better than me. Championship flight is scratch to 9. 

I think you're saying that when non-pro's put the ball from 150 yards out within 5' of the flag that would be considered an outlier (better than typical) shot.  Just as if on the same shot a pro that puts the ball outside 20' would be an outlier (worse than typical) for them.   We're also not playing on course setups that are as difficult as the pro's.

You're normalizing a shot across the entire spectrum of non-pro's to pro's where those who disagree with you want to base the quality of the shot on their individual ability.   If I hit a drive 270 yards and land it in the fairway that's a great shot for me but for a pro or even scratch golfer it's not.  

[Dave2512]

2 hours ago, Jeremie Boop said:

So, basically you are saying that unless a shot is "like the pros" it's not a good shot? 

No my response was to his that said the result of golf shots level the field, gives us a way to temporarily perform above our abilities.  can't dunk, can't throw etc. I am not using pro golf as the baseline that would be silly either way. 

 I am not saying I have an edge just being humble and I don't think many lesser skilled golfers, myself included accurately rate their "good" shots. If good is relative to current abilities it should come with reality, my good shot is just my infrequent good shot I won't use it to qualify my golfing ability or determine how much I enjoy my round. 

When good comes with a heathy dose of luck or happenstance I believe it's a faulty target. Score is our true measure of skill. There is no way to end around that. We minimize damage we don't chase good shots it's our only choice.

Nobody wants to hit bad shots. But we can't ignore the tally. If you, me the guy down the street shoots X it's a story of how well the ball was struck. I will never walk off the course and think I played well based on my perception of certain shots if the score disputes that.

One good shot doesn't often win a tournamet, more like never. It requires many good shots in succession. The finish line isn't vague. 

Hope my phone hasn't auto corrected me to idiocy, I broke my glasses and can't see shit. 

[Valleygolfer]

I don't believe that the shots that I hit are above my ability @Dave2512, I am talking about ones that are possible at the maximum or close, to my ability. The type I am looking for consistently in the future and they are not really very hard to hit. Just hard to get everything in line every time right now. They aren't luck but deliberate swings. Proof that I am not chasing an oasis. I am not naive to think I will be a tour pro or 1.49 ball striker even half the time at some point but I know what I am trying to achieve with my swing, and when I've achieved it. It is a completely different entity than the scoring. I love scoring low but I love greating the mechanics right more so right now. Maybe down the road it will be old hat after I hit more shots like it per round but it is sure sweet to hit the shots almost exactly the way I want them.

[paininthenuts]

On 6/27/2016 at 1:20 AM, Patch said:

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A quality shot, caused by a quality swing, will produce quality low scores in the long run. 

When we practice, I am pretty sure we are not practicing how to write a low score. We learned that in grade school. Those who didn't are probably pretty good with an eraser. 

Going back to the title, and it's a great thread. This depends on so many things. I started playing 10 months ago at the age of 57, and I am now 58. My ambition when I started was to get to an 18 handicap, and whilst I am now playing off of 23, in reality I am probably about 20, so not to far away. Because I have done better than I originally thought, then perhaps a handicap a little lower may be possible. The point about all this is, should I do what works for me, or should I work on perfection, which would take a lot longer but give me better results in the end. At my age I don't have time on my side, so this is an issue that I have to take into account. Fortunately the classic swing has come quite natural to me, so it's not a case of getting out of any seriously bad habits. I was also lucky enough to have a close friend who is a pro, and therefore got me off to a good start. Now, if I were 14 years old with almost my whole life in front of me, I think it would be a case of working towards textbook style golf. On the other hand, I play with golfers in their 70s, and if they were to attempt to change how they play, they would be dead well before the changes ever worked. 

In answer to the thread, there is NO answer, purely because it depends on to many factors.

[RH31]

I'd much rather be the better ball striker than the better scorer. Hitting 10-12 greens per round and shooting 78-78 is much more fun than hitting 6-8 greens and shooting 75-81. Both add up to 156, but the solid ball striking rounds are more fun to me.

[uitar9]

Playing this weekend with a young man. we ended up with similar scores. 91's. He disappeared after most tee shots, and we ended up on the the green together with the same score. He scrambled all day. I walked down the centre of the fairways.

I was happy with the score and my repetitive shooting. I don't hit far enough to get much lower

[krupa]

Quality shots, all day long.  But that's probably because I don't have many.  But... when I hit the ball well, it sounds good and feels good and it's a pleasure to watch the ball fly.  If it happens to bounce off a rock into a pond or whatever, I don't really care.  Golf and life are about doing the best you can and then accepting and dealing with the bad bounces that you will get.   This has been another Deep Thought by Jack Handy.