Losing swing speed, but more importantly, distance.

[freshmanUTA]

Hi all,

In case you still don't know me around here I'm 18 and I used to be a long hitter. I competed in Junior Long Drive events and actually one won wth a 363 yard drive with a 132mph swing speed. I never really played actual rounds of golf, I enjoyed bombing the driver more.

Recently I've been playing more rounds and I started worried about hitting accurate shots instead of long drives because 363 two fairways over doesn't help make par. I want to score well and possibly get my stuff figured out before I graduate college and maybe play some high level amateur events. Since I started working on my swing, I've been employing the LSW method of Slow Simple practice, and I've been struggling trying to hit shots at full speed again. Since I've worked on my swing my "Full Speed" swing is actually struggling to get me 200 or more yards with my driver, and my irons are almost 50 yards shorter than usual. How to I break this habit of swinging slowly and get back to the swing speed I used to be at?

[DrvFrShow]

I'm a musician. I don't think slow simple practice was about slowing your speed all the time. It was just until you learned the move.Then you increase the speed. 

I've seen guys at the driving range with fast swings but terrible tempos. One guy at the range should have been crushing the ball to the back fence on the fly but he could barely hit it 180 yds. Occasionally he'd hit a low cut that would make it. I don't have anywhere near his swing speed and hit it about 215 carry.

My guess is that you haven't lost any swing speed, but your tempo is off. When your tempo is off, you introduce compensations just so you can hit the ball. This is causing you not to make center contact with your driver and your irons. 

Watch the tempo of this golfer. Legend has it that Fred Couples hasn't missed the center of the club since he was 15. He has kind of an unorthodox swing, but pay attention to his swing tempo. It's perfect.

 

[iacas]

Have you posted a good camera angle swing in your Member Swing thread?

Cuz otherwise my advice is "swing faster." And I echo what @DrvFrShow said: you practice at the edge of your ability, and speed that up as the edge gets farther away. You keep chasing the edge.

[Machine528]

Freshman, that is a huge difference in distance ! I used to compete in long drive in the early and mid 2000's I was able to swing my driver around 140-145 back then but when I played golf it was a nightmare.  I have not trained for long drive in almost 8 years but my swing speed is still high.  I average around 125-130 when I want to go at the ball.   Is it possible that you have lost confidence in your driver?  I know when I play a tight course I can't do anything with my driver because my swing is so timid. 

If I was you I would play some open courses and focus on making some aggressive swings.  Then when your on the range make sure you are swinging hard with a good tempo and once you get confident in hitting it hard again I think you will find you get your distance back. 

Have you checked your swing speed lately ? 

[freshmanUTA]

On July 3, 2016 at 4:12 PM, iacas said:

Have you posted a good camera angle swing in your Member Swing thread?

Cuz otherwise my advice is "swing faster." And I echo what @DrvFrShow said: you practice at the edge of your ability, and speed that up as the edge gets farther away. You keep chasing the edge.

Just uploaded a video today. 

In case you don't want to switch threads:

 

On July 4, 2016 at 7:41 AM, Machine528 said:

Freshman, that is a huge difference in distance ! I used to compete in long drive in the early and mid 2000's I was able to swing my driver around 140-145 back then but when I played golf it was a nightmare.  I have not trained for long drive in almost 8 years but my swing speed is still high.  I average around 125-130 when I want to go at the ball.   Is it possible that you have lost confidence in your driver?  I know when I play a tight course I can't do anything with my driver because my swing is so timid. 

If I was you I would play some open courses and focus on making some aggressive swings.  Then when your on the range make sure you are swinging hard with a good tempo and once you get confident in hitting it hard again I think you will find you get your distance back. 

Have you checked your swing speed lately ? 

I got my swing speed checked today, 110 with driver and 95 with 6 iron.

[No Mulligans]

That doesn't look like a 200 yard drive and 110 mph shouldn't result in 200 yards either.  Nice swing.

[freshmanUTA]

18 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

That doesn't look like a 200 yard drive and 110 mph shouldn't result in 200 yards either.  Nice swing.

That's what I said too and the numbers seem all screwed up. My path was reading at 5° "out-to-in" which, okay, I can deal with. My launch angle was averaging 15°, and my backspin was averaging 6100rpm.

Edited July 7, 2016 by freshmanUTA

[billchao]

1 hour ago, freshmanUTA said:

That's what I said too and the numbers seem all screwed up. My path was reading at 5° "out-to-in" which, okay, I can deal with. My launch angle was averaging 15°, and my backspin was averaging 6100rpm.

You're getting way too much spin. Are you hitting low on the clubface? AoA too steep?

You'd be losing distance at half that spin rate.

[iacas]

I'd be surprised if that was only -5°, too. (left)

6100 is WAY too much spin. Like 3x too much spin.

[freshmanUTA]

52 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'd be surprised if that was only -5°, too. (left)

6100 is WAY too much spin. Like 3x too much spin.

1. the more I look the more I see that it looks like 400° left

2. is that most likely from too steep AoA?

3 hours ago, billchao said:

You're getting way too much spin. Are you hitting low on the clubface? AoA too steep?

You'd be losing distance at half that spin rate.

Not sure. It didn't measure my AoA.

[Buckeyebowman]

3 hours ago, billchao said:

You're getting way too much spin. Are you hitting low on the clubface? AoA too steep?

You'd be losing distance at half that spin rate.

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I'd be surprised if that was only -5°, too. (left)

6100 is WAY too much spin. Like 3x too much spin.

The vid was a revelation. I don't think you've lost that much swing speed, but your path is way out of whack. It was easy to see a BIG "out to in" move, and that usually means you're also hitting down on the ball. This could increase your spin rate, but that 6100 RPM number is kind of astounding! You want about 2,000 RPM off your driver. You might expect 6100 from a long to mid iron struck perfectly off the turf.

The vid was also a revelation because I thought you may have read a few things about the golf swing, and gotten stuck on trying to replicate static positions within the golf swing, thus throwing a little "steer job" swing on the ball. That proved not to be the case.

I may get flamed for this, but here goes. I'd suggest working on squaring up your swing path to the target. That can get you sweeping the ball off the tee rather than chopping down on it. You look plenty young, and big, and strong enough to be smacking the ball out there a good way with the cut you take. One thing I'd like you to do is describe your shot shape. We can't see that on the vid.

[WUTiger]

How's your conditioning routine? Titleist Performance Institute  discusses the difference between strength and power in golfers. (You'll have to hunt a little to find the discussion)

[Aguirre]

Lou Gehrig lost a ton of power in the year he discovered that he had ALS. 

Best wishes fixing your swing.

[RandallT]

@freshmanUTA- quick question. In your swing thread, you mentioned that this swing on video showed <200yd on the simulator. Can you confirm that outside at a range, with a similar swing here that you show, that the ball still doesn't even get to the 200yd markers? Or is this strictly a simulator distance that you are talking about? 

Just wanted to confirm since it sounds to me the sim could be off with those high spin numbers too.

As you mentioned in your swing thread, you're going to be working with an instructor on swing mechanics anyway, so it'll be interesting to hear what they say when you get to that point. Although if you go the route you discussed (the same route I took), they likely won't focus much on distance initially, as there are usually plenty of basics in the swing to cover first.

 

[freshmanUTA]

5 hours ago, RandallT said:

@freshmanUTA- quick question. In your swing thread, you mentioned that this swing on video showed <200yd on the simulator. Can you confirm that outside at a range, with a similar swing here that you show, that the ball still doesn't even get to the 200yd markers? Or is this strictly a simulator distance that you are talking about? 

Just wanted to confirm since it sounds to me the sim could be off with those high spin numbers too.

As you mentioned in your swing thread, you're going to be working with an instructor on swing mechanics anyway, so it'll be interesting to hear what they say when you get to that point. Although if you go the route you discussed (the same route I took), they likely won't focus much on distance initially, as there are usually plenty of basics in the swing to cover first.

 

my longest drive the past few weeks has been 214 yards. I've been teeing off with fairways woods because they're going 230 or farther.

14 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

 

The vid was a revelation. I don't think you've lost that much swing speed, but your path is way out of whack. It was easy to see a BIG "out to in" move, and that usually means you're also hitting down on the ball. This could increase your spin rate, but that 6100 RPM number is kind of astounding! You want about 2,000 RPM off your driver. You might expect 6100 from a long to mid iron struck perfectly off the turf.

The vid was also a revelation because I thought you may have read a few things about the golf swing, and gotten stuck on trying to replicate static positions within the golf swing, thus throwing a little "steer job" swing on the ball. That proved not to be the case.

I may get flamed for this, but here goes. I'd suggest working on squaring up your swing path to the target. That can get you sweeping the ball off the tee rather than chopping down on it. You look plenty young, and big, and strong enough to be smacking the ball out there a good way with the cut you take. One thing I'd like you to do is describe your shot shape. We can't see that on the vid.

Big pull hooks or big banana slices.

[natureboy]

15 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

The vid was a revelation. I don't think you've lost that much swing speed, but your path is way out of whack. It was easy to see a BIG "out to in" move, and that usually means you're also hitting down on the ball. This could increase your spin rate, but that 6100 RPM number is kind of astounding! You want about 2,000 RPM off your driver. You might expect 6100 from a long to mid iron struck perfectly off the turf.

The vid was also a revelation because I thought you may have read a few things about the golf swing, and gotten stuck on trying to replicate static positions within the golf swing, thus throwing a little "steer job" swing on the ball. That proved not to be the case.

I may get flamed for this, but here goes. I'd suggest working on squaring up your swing path to the target. That can get you sweeping the ball off the tee rather than chopping down on it. You look plenty young, and big, and strong enough to be smacking the ball out there a good way with the cut you take. One thing I'd like you to do is describe your shot shape. We can't see that on the vid.

I'd tend to agree. Probably getting 210 yards in carry on a straight line from the tee, but about 50 yards plus average lateral deviation from the 'target' that the ball takes off toward. Too much curve.

@freshmanUTA Maybe let the upper body 'wait' a bit more as you start with the legs / hips, then direct your swing intention a bit more to the right of the target line ('right field').

Edited July 8, 2016 by natureboy

[Buckeyebowman]

On 7/8/2016 at 1:24 PM, freshmanUTA said:

my longest drive the past few weeks has been 214 yards. I've been teeing off with fairways woods because they're going 230 or farther.

Big pull hooks or big banana slices.

Well there you are! With those two shot shapes off your Driver, in one instance you're closing your clubface to the path (pull hook), or leaving it open (banana slice). I'd still suggest getting that swing path on line, and continuing from there.

On 7/8/2016 at 2:12 PM, natureboy said:

I'd tend to agree. Probably getting 210 yards in carry on a straight line from the tee, but about 50 yards plus average lateral deviation from the 'target' that the ball takes off toward. Too much curve.

@freshmanUTA Maybe let the upper body 'wait' a bit more as you start with the legs / hips, then direct your swing intention a bit more to the right of the target line ('right field').

And I tend to agree with you. When you "straighten out" a big, curving ball flight, it will end up farther out there than the big curve!

And I did notice that UTA seemed to start down from the shoulders. My buddy had a boss who played collegiate golf for Ohio State. A hell of a golfer. This guy felt he started his down swing with his shoulders. "What you feel, vs what is real"? When I watched this guy swing, he started his downswing from the ground up like all better players.

[natureboy]

4 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

And I did notice that UTA seemed to start down from the shoulders. My buddy had a boss who played collegiate golf for Ohio State. A hell of a golfer. This guy felt he started his down swing with his shoulders. "What you feel, vs what is real"? When I watched this guy swing, he started his downswing from the ground up like all better players.

But isn't 'leave the club behind' / 'feel the weight of the club at the top' both good real and feel?

Your example is probably a guy who had learned to throw hard in some sport (or skip stones) so the lower body action was ingrained / unconscious with the 'throw' intention.

Edited July 10, 2016 by natureboy