Gimmes in League Playoffs

[jsgolfer]

In match play, I give gimme's frequently.  But always depends on the opponent and the status of the match.  If someone gives me a questionable length putt, I will usually return the favor.  

 

[DaveP043]

18 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

 I've seen low single digit guys draw flight 3 guys and they're done before they start.

Them 20 handicaps make plenty of mistakes, that's why they play off 20.  Those guys who are "done before they start" are in their own heads too much, all they gotta do is play solid to have a real good chance of winning.

[Dave2512]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

Them 20 handicaps make plenty of mistakes, that's why they play off 20.  Those guys who are "done before they start" are in their own heads too much, all they gotta do is play solid to have a real good chance of winning.

Gets tricky though giving up strokes, need to know where your opponent is at on every hole. Can get funky when player A and B both have a bad hole, the higher handicap golfer could be putting for double or worse to halve. I make them work for it if the match is close knowing I'll need help via mistakes on the last few holes if they get strokes on those. My last 20 spread is always in the 8-12 stroke range so a mediocre day makes for a tough match if I draw a higher handicap golfer.

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, Dave2512 said:

 My last 20 spread is always in the 8-12 stroke range so a mediocre day makes for a tough match if I draw a higher handicap golfer.

In my experience, a mediocre day makes it a tough match, no matter who I play.

[NJpatbee]

About the only time I play match play is for money and in that case I never concede anything greater than about a foot.  As far as playing against a player with a much lower handicap than mine I will typically refuse the offer.  From the higher handicapper point of view, if as a 17 I play a match against a 7 my opponent no doubt has a much more consistent game than I do.  My last 20 scores could range from an 86 to a 100 but of course only the best 10 are counted.  I have very rarely won a match against a much lower handicap golfer, and quite frankly it is worse if I happen to win since in my experience the better golfer starts complaining about the HCP system and is quite upset losing to an inferior golfer - I have learned to avoid these matches.

[DannyMac]

League play season vs playoffs I give putts relatively the same.  I take circumstance and difficulty into consideration when choosing whether to concede a putt or not.  If they have 18" down hill to halve the hole late in the match, I would usually make my opponent putt it.

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, DannyMac said:

League play season vs playoffs I give putts relatively the same.  I take circumstance and difficulty into consideration when choosing whether to concede a putt or not.  If they have 18" down hill to halve the hole late in the match, I would usually make my opponent putt it.

Well said, and a good job of getting this thread back on course.  I apologize for my part in the digression into the high v. low handicapper matches.

[NJpatbee]

5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Well said, and a good job of getting this thread back on course.  I apologize for my part in the digression into the high v. low handicapper matches.

Guilty here also.

[Zekez]

On 8/17/2016 at 0:35 PM, DaveP043 said:

Well said, and a good job of getting this thread back on course.  I apologize for my part in the digression into the high v. low handicapper matches.

I like this discussion.

And wouldn't it just come down to which golfer is playing better that day relative to their handicap and skill level?  The handicap system exists to make things equal right?  So no matter who is playing it all comes down to who played better THAT DAY.

The guy i am playing in my League playoffs is a 13 handicap and in the bottom 5 players in the League.  Last year he beat both a 2 and 4 handicap to make it to the semi's. 

[Dave2512]

Handicapping for match play is a little different so there is a strategy element in that you have to know where your opponent is getting strokes or not. It's more than conceding putts. There is also a gamesmanship element when evenly matched in close matches. You make someone putt it and they miss it can get under their skin. If I know we are coming to a stretch of holes where I typically struggle I likely won't concede putts outside of legit gimme range just to be a good sport knowing I will have to play conservative through that stretch, I want to win my match and in our league it's pay to play.

[Let it Fly]

Great to read the thoughts in this thread.  Have a 27-hole, round robin, team match play event coming up next month, which will be my first time playing true/competitive match play golf.  This topic is something I've been a little nervous about.  Over the past couple years playing gentlemen's golf with friends, we'd rake anything inside 3-feet because it just made everyone's day better.  I haven't really had any experience with the "gamesmanship."

Is it poor etiquette to ask our competitors to agree to just putting everything out no matter what?  

[Dave2512]

49 minutes ago, Let it Fly said:

Is it poor etiquette to ask our competitors to agree to just putting everything out no matter what?  

I wouldn't it's part of the format and can be very useful. Match play is a different beast, especially for amateurs where abilities can vary significantly. I look at the entire match, what I'll need to do to stay ahead or catch up etc. before conceding putts. Competition has a way of changing how people play and putting is often where I see people struggle. Even in regular league the guys that gimme everything during the week miss a lot of short putts. When they have to make it they get jitters.

[Fourputt]

48 minutes ago, Let it Fly said:

Great to read the thoughts in this thread.  Have a 27-hole, round robin, team match play event coming up next month, which will be my first time playing true/competitive match play golf.  This topic is something I've been a little nervous about.  Over the past couple years playing gentlemen's golf with friends, we'd rake anything inside 3-feet because it just made everyone's day better.  I haven't really had any experience with the "gamesmanship."

Is it poor etiquette to ask our competitors to agree to just putting everything out no matter what?  

All players involved would be subject to disqualification for agreeing to waive a rule of golf.  

[Pete]

if you receive a gimme, do you still count the round for handicap calculation?

[DaveP043]

53 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

All players involved would be subject to disqualification for agreeing to waive a rule of golf.  

I was almost ready to suggest that they're agreeing to play by the rules.  But the rules allow any shot to be conceded.  So @Fourputt is right.  I'd suggest that its perfectly acceptable to tell your opponents that you're unlikely to concede anything, without asking your opponents to agree to do the same.

17 minutes ago, Pete said:

if you receive a gimme, do you still count the round for handicap calculation?

The handicap rules specifically say that if you don't finish the hole, for handicap you record the score you most likely would have made.  If they give you a 2-footer, count it as one putt.  If they give you a 20-footer, count it as two putts for handicap posting.

[shanksalot]

In match play I will give putts early, but not late. I never give a birdie putt no matter how short. 

[Dave2512]

IMO conceding putts early can be a mistake if it starts a cycle of my opponent expecting a good-good routine. One thing I've noticed is the average league player doesn't really understand match play they simply imitate what they see the pros do but it doesn't shake out that way for amateurs unless we're talking elite amateurs. IME conceding putts that matter doesn't come up that often because the holes are won or lost before it gets that close.

The short answer for this thread should have been concede the short putts when you know there is near zero chance of winning or halving the hole. The majority of holes won typically will be over and done further away from the hole, like on the tee box. It's not very Ryder Cup-ish.

[Fourputt]

I've played a lot of match play, and I disagree that the majority of holes are won or lost before getting to the green.  When the handicaps are accurate, most matches I've played come down to one or two putts made or missed.  The handicaps compensate for most other irregularities or inequalities between the players involved.  

It certainly isn't all about the tee, because both will either miss about the same number of drives with a similar degree of error, or the handicaps will help to make up for a few errant tee shots on the part of the weaker player.  Either way most holes will be decided around the green.

As far as whether that affects conceded putts, for me it has very little bearing.  I will concede a putt if I think that the player will make it anyway, and it doesn't matter if it's for bogey or eagle.  I don't believe in "gamesmanship", all I see from that is a player who lacks confidence in his ability to beat his opponent with his play.