Trump Stiffs Hole in 1 Winner

[newtogolf]

4 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I just remembered ... the same tournament that I mentioned above that my mom organizes also had a hole-in-one contest one year, however, it was a little different.  Before the tournament started, they chose ONE NAME from a raffle of all players entered, and that one person went down into the 18th fairway with a couple of reps (not sure if they were insurance people, charity people, or just people that worked at the course) to the designated distance (was probably about 150 yards) and took one shot.

They would have had no trouble with witnesses on that one because there were about 80 or 100 of us all standing around the green watching.  Somebody may have been videotaping as well, I don't know.

---

Now I wonder if there isn't video of the event and an insurance rep wasn't there to confirm (and if that was the case, then they should be liable for not correcting the mistake ahead of time), how does the insurance company "prove" that the shot wasn't at least 150 yards?  Unless it was way, way under, I guess.

That's common, the more people that have an opportunity to try for the million dollars the higher the cost of the policy.  By limiting it to one or two people the cost of the policy is minimal.    

[Gunther]

7 minutes ago, RussUK said:

of course it makes no sense to the likes of you and I but we're not billionaires. There is the opinion that those who have lots of money loathe to part with any of it. Plus "if" it was intentional there would be no way to prove it. Never said he did it, just that he could

I'm not sure you understand the concept of HIO insurance.  He already paid for the policy, so he had "parted with it".

It would not have cost him another dime for someone to make a HIO or not make a HIO.  Doesn't matter that he's a billionaire or that you think he's slimey.  There is no chance that he personally set up the markers deliberately shy or that he directed someone to do the same.  

[Valleygolfer]

11 minutes ago, RussUK said:

of course it makes no sense to the likes of you and I but we're not billionaires. There is the opinion that those who have lots of money loathe to part with any of it. Plus "if" it was intentional there would be no way to prove it. Never said he did it, just that he could

You are not making sense in general. Insurance is purchased prior to the tournaments. Then the organizer has nothing to do with the pay out other than follow the stipulations.

[newtogolf]

In reading the articles about Trump and this hole in one case it appears there were other charity foundations involved.  I'm setting up a hole in one insurance policy now for a fund raising event for a non-profit.  We are hosting it at a private golf club but hole in one insurance is being secured by our organization not the golf course.  

It is our responsibility to inform the golf course of the requirements, distance, tee location and number of eligible people that can win the million dollars.  We are also responsible for making sure the hole is set up in accordance with the policy and that one of our staff members is on the tee and another at the green to witness the hole in one.  The policy could say 150 yards and the organization can request 175 yards from tee to flag.  The organization nor golf course benefits by setting the distance shorter than the insurance policy, that's already been paid for, requires.  

Like any insurance policy, the language favors the insurance company and payout is only made if all the stars align with Jupiter on the 29th day of February.  If the course did not secure the insurance then it's possible the charitable foundations that did failed to communicate the requirements to the course.  On a side note, 150 yards is pretty short for these competitions, most of the policies I have enacted required at least a 175 yards and I've been to a few that were even longer.  

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

I'm not sure you understand the concept of HIO insurance.  He already paid for the policy, so he had "parted with it".

It would not have cost him another dime for someone to make a HIO or not make a HIO.  Doesn't matter that he's a billionaire or that you think he's slimey.  There is no chance that he personally set up the markers deliberately shy or that he directed someone to do the same.  

Right.  It makes no earthly sense that somebody who wasn't liable to pay the money would try to scam somebody like that.

This type of thing would have to boil down to an accidental mistake (how's that for redundant) by somebody in setting up the tee markers and in checking the distance as well.  Perhaps the hole is 150 on the nose from the marker and the person forgot to account for the fact that the flag was 2 yards short of the center of the green.

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

In reading the articles about Trump and this hole in one case it appears there were other charity foundations involved.  I'm setting up a hole in one insurance policy now for a fund raising event for a non-profit.  We are hosting it at a private golf club but hole in one insurance is being secured by our organization not the golf course.  

It is our responsibility to inform the golf course of the requirements, distance, tee location and number of eligible people that can win the million dollars.  We are also responsible for making sure the hole is set up in accordance with the policy and that one of our staff members is on the tee and another at the green to witness the hole in one.  The policy could say 150 yards and the organization can request 175 yards from tee to flag.  The organization nor golf course benefits by setting the distance shorter than the insurance policy, that's already been paid for, requires.  

Like any insurance policy, the language favors the insurance company and payout is only made if all the stars align with Jupiter on the 29th day of February.  If the course did not secure the insurance then it's possible the charitable foundations that did failed to communicate the requirements to the course.  On a side note, 150 yards is pretty short for these competitions, most of the policies I have enacted required at least a 175 yards and I've been to a few that were even longer.  

Good info.  I can't help but try and apply this unfortunate situation to the tournament I mentioned earlier.  The Central California Alzheimers Foundation is barely more than a two woman group and the money raised from this golf tournament pays for most of their budget, IIRC.  And we're talking, when all is said and done, only a couple of thousands of dollars.  The golf course they had it at the year they had the million dollar hole in one competition was a very mediocre muni course with no money.  If this same situation happened, I have no idea how it would get resolved.  Almost scary to think about.  Would the guy actually try and sue the charity organization that he was supposedly there to support?  Would he try and sue the city, since it's a muni course?  Sue the individuals?  Nobody involved in that has anywhere close to 1 million dollars lying around to hand out.

Spoiler

If it was me, I'd just sue Donald Trump because he's a giant a-hole! 

 

[Gator Hazard]

I don't understand this at all. The smart play would have been to pay it off if even out of personal funds. You can't buy (pun definitely intended) better publicity than being a golfer who sees the error and pays it off in the spirit of the game. The good will created would have been enormous and shown him as a stand up guy who makes good business decisions. This is just another of many feathers in his cap of idiocy to let it spiral out of control. You can't handle a charity error?  How can I be confident you will do what's right for the country?  What a maroon. 

[CarlSpackler]

1 minute ago, Gator Hazard said:

I don't understand this at all. The smart play would have been to pay it off if even out of personal funds. You can't buy (pun definitely intended) better publicity than being a golfer who sees the error and pays it off I the spirit of the game. The good will created would have been enormous and shown him as a stand up guy who makes good business decisions. This is just another of many feathers in his cap of idiocy. 

If it were you and someone wanted you to pay $1000 for someone else's mistake (making assumption there), would you pay?

[Gator Hazard]

14 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

If it were you and someone wanted you to pay $1000 for someone else's mistake (making assumption there), would you pay?

It's all relative. What's a million dollars to a multi billionaire in a public forum where he is burning cash on publicity already?  As a business person if I am in his shoes the answer is a resounding yes. 

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

I don't understand this at all. The smart play would have been to pay it off if even out of personal funds. You can't buy (pun definitely intended) better publicity than being a golfer who sees the error and pays it off in the spirit of the game. The good will created would have been enormous and shown him as a stand up guy who makes good business decisions.

Paying when you've already paid the insurance and didn't make any mistakes yourself strikes me as the exact opposite of "makes good business decisions."

[Gator Hazard]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Paying when you've already paid the insurance and didn't make any mistakes yourself strikes me as the exact opposite of "makes good business decisions."

Not really. It shows ownership for your grounds crew not giving a legitimate chance at something you have offered. Did the insurance company cut the hole?

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

Not really. It shows ownership for your grounds crew not giving a legitimate chance at something you have offered. Did the insurance company cut the hole?

You seem to be confusing what might be good PR with what definitely is not a "good business decision."

"Showing ownership" when you had absolutely no ownership or obligation is not "good business."

[Gator Hazard]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

You seem to be confusing what might be good PR with what definitely is not a "good business decision."

"Showing ownership" when you had absolutely no ownership or obligation is not "good business."

You have heard the saying there is no such thing as bad publicity?  This toes that line. And in fact CEOs have to take the blame for mistakes their underlings do all the time. It's the buck stops here type of thought. Taking what could become (and has) a bad publicity item and spinning it with magnanimity and a showing of responsibility is not a bad business decision when you pay millions in advertising already. It's just good business sense to turn a bad situation into a good one. 

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

You have heard the saying there is no such thing as bad publicity?  This toes that line. And in fact CEOs have to take the blame for mistakes their underlings do all the time. It's the buck stops here type of thought. Taking what could become (and has) a bad publicity item and spinning it with magnanimity and a showing of responsibility is not a bad business decision when you pay millions in advertising already. It's just good business sense to turn a bad situation into a good one. 

Wrong, if he paid out of his own pocket no one would even know or care.  The news doesn't cover good will stories, they cover controversy.  Again, do you hold the Walton family personally responsible every time something bad happens at Walmart or Sam's Club?  Should Bill Gates have sent me $1000 dollars for releasing Windows Vista, wouldn't it have been great publicity if Bill Gates sent us all $1000 for having to use their crappy OS?  Why didn't he do it?

You never take responsibility for something that's not your fault in business, it just opens the door for future claims and lawsuits.  The only thing he could do is refund everyone that participated in the hole in one competition whatever money they paid for a chance at the $1M, given this was all for charity anyway, it's a poor reflection on Greenberg.  

[Gator Hazard]

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Wrong, if he paid out of his own pocket no one would even know or care.  The news doesn't cover good will stories, they cover controversy.  Again, do you hold the Walton family personally responsible every time something bad happens at Walmart or Sam's Club?  Should Bill Gates have sent me $1000 dollars for releasing Windows Vista, wouldn't it have been great publicity if Bill Gates sent us all $1000 for having to use their crappy OS?  Why didn't he do it?

You never take responsibility for something that's not your fault in business, it just opens the door for future claims and lawsuits.  The only thing he could do is refund everyone that participated in the hole in one competition whatever money they paid for a chance at the $1M, given this was all for charity anyway, it's a poor reflection on Greenberg.  

Not true. Believe me good deeds and information are leaked to journalists all the time. It's silly to think Trump doesn't have media people loyal to him who he could have this story given too and they run with it. This scenario is different. Sam Walton and others are not and were not running for president where journalists will report any and everything they can get their hands on. Further your examples are private engagements where a tournament with a hole in one prize is public information with advertising attached and follow up stories printed after the fact. 

[newtogolf]

7 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

Not true. Believe me good deeds and information are leaked to journalists all the time. It's silly to think Trump doesn't have media people loyal to him who he could have this story given too and they run with it. This scenario is different. Sam Walton and others are not and were not running for president where journalists will report any and everything they can get their hands on. Further your examples are private engagements where a tournament with a hole in one prize is public information with advertising attached and follow up stories printed after the fact. 

There are charity tournaments run all the time with hole in one contests, no one cares.  This story is barely being covered and only by those who really hate Trump.  By Tuesday it will be buried by the debates.  

[70sSanO]

I waded through the posts pretty fast and my thoughts...

First a question, if I voted in 2010 can I vote again because no one cared about this in 2010?

For all of you who think Trump needs good publicity, this did happen in 2010 and no one cared, especially Trump, about good publicity.

It was already settled out of court.  No one got stiffed.  If there was a strong enough case, it would have gone to court.  No one would settle for 15% of what they were entitled to and probably have to pay for their own lawyer's fees.

Truth is, this is life, and life has small print and we have all been victims of that print.

John

Edited September 24, 2016 by 70sSanO

[Valleygolfer]

8 hours ago, Gator Hazard said:

It's all relative. What's a million dollars to a multi billionaire in a public forum where he is burning cash on publicity already?  As a business person if I am in his shoes the answer is a resounding yes. 

This is the same thinking of why countries debt is so high. "The government has millions of our tax dollars, they owe me an easy life or buy a hammer from my company for $276." People who stay rich don't think, I have all this money, what's paying off a few guys here and there. They are thinking about making more all the time.

[Gator Hazard]

On September 24, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Valleygolfer said:

This is the same thinking of why countries debt is so high. "The government has millions of our tax dollars, they owe me an easy life or buy a hammer from my company for $276." People who stay rich don't think, I have all this money, what's paying off a few guys here and there. They are thinking about making more all the time.

Actually it is not. It's taking something that people will perceive is bad associated with you, your brands and your business as Trump and making sure it doesn't affect you negatively. People saying it's not his fault and would be bad business are failing to see the big picture. He generates so much money off of his name and reputation and brand that if something is associated with him negatively, wrong or right, it could have already cost him far more than a million dollars of revenue or EBITDA.  And this was another executive  not sure I want the word on street to be that I didn't make good for another CEO.

It's the same reason why when Chik Fil A made a statement about gay marriage they also were outside handing out free bottles of water to protesters. And their sales went even higher!  They controlled the message and paid for it and what happened?  They came out winners. There are multiple examples of this in business. That's why I disagree with @iacasand with @newtogolf  And apparently over 70 percent of the voters on this poll agree. 

Ultimately we can have our own opinions on it and that's mine.