Withdrew during a club championship tournament ...

[No Mulligans]

Some hold their political party views with a religious like fanaticism.  I find that annoying myself.  But, being one that can see good and bad on either side of the aisle, I would hope I'd be able to let it roll off my back.  After all I've spent time with political fanatics on both the right an left and consider them friends in spite of that common flaw.

I would have kept playing, I've never quit mid-round except because of weather or darkness.

[Fourputt]

25 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

No, he appeared to be walking out on a tournament round because he was really not enjoying the experience it provided for him. I don't see why you people are faulting him for that.

It's his money on the tournament, not yours. If he decided that it wasn't worth continuing to play, for one reason or another, than that's his decision to make. He didn't find it enjoyable for a variety of reasons, none of which need to meet your standards for withdrawing from a tournament because you weren't the one playing.

Some people are more competitive than others, I get that (I know that I myself am extremely competitive), but that doesn't mean that you get to apply your standards to every other golfer in a tournament situation. Other golfers are more concerned about having fun with the game, and if it isn't fun for them you shouldn't be blaming them for not continuing to play.

There are more people to consider than just himself and the know-it-all.  He still owes it as a courtesy to the other 2 players in his group to not leave them short, which typically results in unnecessarily excessive waiting.  Not to mention that without your presence, he can now devote his diatribe solely on them.  Just not what I call being a courteous player.  It's still true that 2 wrongs don't make anyone right.

[CarlSpackler]

Here is a gut check question for the OP. If you were in contention, would you have walked? 

Something else to consider. We can use opportunities like this to learn and grow. This was a chance to learn how to deal internally with an obnoxious player in a tournament environment. What happens if you are paired up with him in another tournament, but you are in contention? Had you stuck it out this time, you would be better prepared for the next time. I walked out on a league round many years ago because I was playing horribly. After I thought about it, I realized that I missed an opportunity to learn how to battle back.

[drmevo]

3 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Any unusual equipment which might help you in your play is not allowed.  If the ear plugs are solely to cut out distractions so that you can concentrate and play better, then they would not be allowed.  Even though Decision 14-3/17 only refers to listening to music, it includes the words "by eliminating distractions".  In some cases that could conceivably be stretched to include such unusual equipment as ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones.  

Distractions are considered part of the game, and as such, dealing with some distractions while playing is a necessary skill. 

This link specifically mentions earplugs:

https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=151&Rule=14

[newtogolf]

10 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

There are more people to consider than just himself and the know-it-all.  He still owes it as a courtesy to the other 2 players in his group to not leave them short, which typically results in unnecessarily excessive waiting.  Not to mention that without your presence, he can now devote his diatribe solely on them.  Just not what I call being a courteous player.  It's still true that 2 wrongs don't make anyone right.

This was how I approached it, Typically in club championships you ride in a cart with a person you're not competing against so you tend to develop a comradery with that person because you're both competing against the guys in the other cart.  

When I've competed in club tournaments like that I became pretty good friends with the guy I was riding with and we looked out for each other during the tournament, helping to find balls, etc.   When @rkim291968quit, he left his cart mate alone which as @Fourputt suggests could have placed him and the other competitor at a disadvantage.  

As a general rule, I never like to withdraw unless I'm so injured I can't play.  I've never been in a situation where I felt threatened by a FC, so I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation, most likely I'd request one of the tournament staff intervene rather than quit.  

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

There are more people to consider than just himself and the know-it-all.  He still owes it as a courtesy to the other 2 players in his group to not leave them short, which typically results in unnecessarily excessive waiting.  Not to mention that without your presence, he can now devote his diatribe solely on them.  Just not what I call being a courteous player.  It's still true that 2 wrongs don't make anyone right.

So he is required to spend a day with what he considers to be deplorable company solely because he can't abandon the others in how group? If nobody is going to stand up to the guy they can just all leave if they want to. They're not required to stay and listen to it.

[newtogolf]

18 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

So he is required to spend a day with what he considers to be deplorable company solely because he can't abandon the others in how group? If nobody is going to stand up to the guy they can just all leave if they want to. They're not required to stay and listen to it.

You're making an assumption that leaving was his only option when he could have first tried to have the tournament / club staff intervene.  

[Golfingdad]

26 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

So he is required to spend a day with what he considers to be deplorable company solely because he can't abandon the others in how group? If nobody is going to stand up to the guy they can just all leave if they want to. They're not required to stay and listen to it.

 

9 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You're making an assumption that leaving was his only option when he could have first tried to have the tournament / club staff intervene.  

@Fourputt pointed out above that they had another recourse:

 

6 hours ago, Fourputt said:

If you don't like the topic then first ask, then if he doesn't take the hint, tell him to shut up.  I don't like talking politics most of the time either, and that would definitely be true if I'm playing in a tournament.  There is possible recourse if he doesn't accede to your request.  Rule 1-4 allows for the committee to take action against a player who makes a serious breach of etiquette, which is what this sounds like.

But my first act would be to ask him to keep his politics to himself.  Tell him straight out that I don't want to talk about it, and I don't care what his opinions about it are.

 

[bkuehn1952]

Has anyone played a tournament round with someone who is not having fun, where tension is palpable between two or more of the players and/or the fellow competitor is somewhat going through the motions and waiting for the round to end?  I have.  Often it is doing everyone a favor to withdraw rather than continue with a cloud over the group.

I doubt @rkim291968 made the the decision to withdraw capriciously.  Everyone needs to decide for themselves at what point a round of golf is no longer enjoyable and whether their continuing to play makes sense.  

[Patch]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

No, he appeared to be walking out on a tournament round because he was really not enjoying the experience it provided for him. I don't see why you people are faulting him for that.

It's his money on the tournament, not yours. If he decided that it wasn't worth continuing to play, for one reason or another, than that's his decision to make. He didn't find it enjoyable for a variety of reasons, none of which need to meet your standards for withdrawing from a tournament because you weren't the one playing.

Some people are more competitive than others, I get that (I know that I myself am extremely competitive), but that doesn't mean that you get to apply your standards to every other golfer in a tournament situation. Other golfers are more concerned about having fun with the game, and if it isn't fun for them you shouldn't be blaming them for not continuing to play.

Well spoken.

[70sSanO]

1 hour ago, drmevo said:

This link specifically mentions earplugs:

https://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=151&Rule=14

Thanks!

I noticed that ear plugs cannot be used while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time, but they can be used briefly or between the green and tee.  That may be enough.

Also I noticed that the rules state:  Players should always show consideration for other players on the course and should not disturb their play by moving, talking or making unnecessary noise.

Since the talking was disturbing other players' play, it would be an interesting situation if a ruling was requested.  Depending on the good old buys network in effect, possibly nothing.

John

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

You're making an assumption that leaving was his only option when he could have first tried to have the tournament / club staff intervene.  

He could have, but sometimes you'd rather just not deal with someone at all for the rest of the day and let it be. If he had brought it up with tournament/club staff then you have to deal with the sometimes-open hostility of the person afterwords.

I had a rules official penalize a player in one of the groups I was in for a tournament because he wouldn't shut up when others were swinging despite us asking him to please do so. He then attempted to sabotage me on the next teebox by deliberately yelling "FORE" when I started my downswing (for which he was disqualified). For the rest of the day (since it was a high school tournament and he couldn't leave the course until the end) he would just follow my group and glare at me, and then his coach came up to harass me about it when I went to the scoring tent. This is obviously just about a worst-case scenario of what can happen if you have tournament staff intervene, but it's just an example of why the player in this situation might choose to leave rather than take the other options available to them.

I was specifically referring to how @Fourputt seemed to imply that the golfer in a tournament has some sort of obligation to his playing partners to continue their own round, regardless of whether or not they're enjoying it. You have no obligation in a tournament to continue your round if you don't want to, regardless of if you have other fellow competitors that would still be stuck with the obnoxious person. Each of those players can assess the very same options for recourse that the person who left had and make their choice about how to handle the situation, regardless of whether or not a player has already left the group.

3 hours ago, Fourputt said:

He still owes it as a courtesy to the other 2 players in his group to not leave them short, which typically results in unnecessarily excessive waiting.  Not to mention that without your presence, he can now devote his diatribe solely on them.  Just not what I call being a courteous player.  It's still true that 2 wrongs don't make anyone right.

I personally don't think that a golfer has any obligation to stay if they feel uncomfortable on the course or aren't enjoying a round, for any reason. Some people may have their own personal standards that prevent them from leaving, but no golfer has an obligation to another that they must finish a round they started. It's all up to the individual. The flip side of this is that the other golfers in the group are also free to pass judgement on the golfer who leaves if they want to. They can look down on him for it, wish they had left themselves, whatever, but there is no reason for the others in the group to believe that the golfer has to keep playing with them out of obligation.

This is the meat of what I'm trying to say, without commenting at all on whether or not there were other or better options available. I don't know the full circumstances because I wasn't there, meaning I can't say whether or not it was "right" to leave or not in the initial case. Even if I was there I don't think I'd feel comfortable judging whether or not it was "right", simply because I am not the person who decided to leave. It's good enough for me in most cases that the person themselves judged it to be right to leave, since I cannot know their individual circumstances or thought processes. All I know is that I don't think a golfer has any obligation to finish a round if they would really rather not.

[Fourputt]

12 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

He could have, but sometimes you'd rather just not deal with someone at all for the rest of the day and let it be. If he had brought it up with tournament/club staff then you have to deal with the sometimes-open hostility of the person afterwords.

I had a rules official penalize a player in one of the groups I was in for a tournament because he wouldn't shut up when others were swinging despite us asking him to please do so. He then attempted to sabotage me on the next teebox by deliberately yelling "FORE" when I started my downswing (for which he was disqualified). For the rest of the day (since it was a high school tournament and he couldn't leave the course until the end) he would just follow my group and glare at me, and then his coach came up to harass me about it when I went to the scoring tent. This is obviously just about a worst-case scenario of what can happen if you have tournament staff intervene, but it's just an example of why the player in this situation might choose to leave rather than take the other options available to them.

I was specifically referring to how @Fourputt seemed to imply that the golfer in a tournament has some sort of obligation to his playing partners to continue their own round, regardless of whether or not they're enjoying it. You have no obligation in a tournament to continue your round if you don't want to, regardless of if you have other fellow competitors that would still be stuck with the obnoxious person. Each of those players can assess the very same options for recourse that the person who left had and make their choice about how to handle the situation, regardless of whether or not a player has already left the group.

I personally don't think that a golfer has any obligation to stay if they feel uncomfortable on the course or aren't enjoying a round, for any reason. Some people may have their own personal standards that prevent them from leaving, but no golfer has an obligation to another that they must finish a round they started. It's all up to the individual. The flip side of this is that the other golfers in the group are also free to pass judgement on the golfer who leaves if they want to. They can look down on him for it, wish they had left themselves, whatever, but there is no reason for the others in the group to believe that the golfer has to keep playing with them out of obligation.

This is the meat of what I'm trying to say, without commenting at all on whether or not there were other or better options available. I don't know the full circumstances because I wasn't there, meaning I can't say whether or not it was "right" to leave or not in the initial case. Even if I was there I don't think I'd feel comfortable judging whether or not it was "right", simply because I am not the person who decided to leave. It's good enough for me in most cases that the person themselves judged it to be right to leave, since I cannot know their individual circumstances or thought processes. All I know is that I don't think a golfer has any obligation to finish a round if they would really rather not.

I respectfully disagree with you.  To withdraw and leave the group short handed requires a better excuse than "I'm not having fun."  Entering an tournament is a commitment, to the organizers and to the players you are grouped with.  Dropping out for no good reason is showing a lack of respect to that commitment, and to those other players.   

Dealing with some adversity is part of the game.  That adversity isn't always limited to one's play.  

[14ledo81]

6 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I respectfully disagree with you.  To withdraw and leave the group short handed requires a better excuse than "I'm not having fun."  Entering an tournament is a commitment, to the organizers and to the players you are grouped with.  Dropping out for no good reason is showing a lack of respect to that commitment, and to those other players.   

Dealing with some adversity is part of the game.  That adversity isn't always limited to one's play.  

I agree with this.  If this was not the case, I think we would see a lot more withdrawals.

[No Mulligans]

15 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I respectfully disagree with you.  To withdraw and leave the group short handed requires a better excuse than "I'm not having fun."  Entering an tournament is a commitment, to the organizers and to the players you are grouped with.  Dropping out for no good reason is showing a lack of respect to that commitment, and to those other players.   

Dealing with some adversity is part of the game.  That adversity isn't always limited to one's play.  

If he was a no show I'd agree he didn't honor a commitment but not for a withdrawal.

I think the commitment argument is a red herring and is making a mountain out of a molehill. It is not against the rules of golf or golf etiquette to withdraw and his leaving due to not having fun by far outweighs any minuscule (if any) effect it might have had on anyone else.

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, No Mulligans said:

I think the commitment argument is a red herring and is making a mountain out of a molehill. It is not against the rules of golf or golf etiquette to withdraw and his leaving due to not having fun by far outweighs any minuscule (if any) effect it might have had on anyone else.

This is the point I'm making. The tournament organizers and the players in your group couldn't care less whether or not you complete your round. It makes it easier for the tournament organizers since they can just mark down "WD" instead of scoring your card. I can say, as someone who plays in a lot of tournaments, I prefer to play in group of 3 even if the group ahead of me is a foursome. It means I don't have to wait as much on my playing partners before I can advance and assess the next shot, giving me plenty of time to read putts, pick my club, etc. 

[Hardspoon]

2 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Entering an tournament is a commitment, to the organizers and to the players you are grouped with.  Dropping out for no good reason is showing a lack of respect to that commitment, and to those other players.

So...I was originally on the side of "do what you want; it's your tournament"...but this makes sense to me too.

I used to play in flag football tournaments where every team made the playoffs (all that the regular season did was determine seeding). It was kind of annoying when the bottom few teams would simply not show up, and you'd have to play multiple games in a day while the high seeds would be completely rested. Sure, it wouldn't be fun for a team of casual players to get spanked, but you could argue that they at least owe it to "the field" to show up and play.

Anyway, I know this isn't the same thing, but I can definitely see both sides of this. 

[rkim291968]

5 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Has anyone played a tournament round with someone who is not having fun, where tension is palpable between two or more of the players and/or the fellow competitor is somewhat going through the motions and waiting for the round to end?  I have.  Often it is doing everyone a favor to withdraw rather than continue with a cloud over the group.

I doubt @rkim291968 made the the decision to withdraw capriciously.  Everyone needs to decide for themselves at what point a round of golf is no longer enjoyable and whether their continuing to play makes sense.  

The creepy tension given out by the guy was indeed palpable.   I think he was happy to see me pack in b/c he either felt bad about how he snapped or he still was mad at me for thinking I blamed his talking politics for my bad shot.   He himself hit OB following the incident and I knew it wasn't fun for him either..   I play golf for fun and there was no reason to keep playing after that.  

 

 

Quitter?  Come on, guys.   This is a game, not a do or die mission.   Guys like Adam Scot, Justin, Jason, ... , refused to play for their country in Rio for Zika in comparison to all the LPGA players who had more to risk.   IMO, they are the quitters.   Tell me that you had never quit while playing something.   If you can say that without the lie meter going off, then you are far better person than everyone here.