Is your club's golf pro playing in money tourneys?

[Spitfisher]

While Visiting a friend down in Fort worth area over the weekend. We played in a skins and pins  event. It was organized by some local guys, It cost a 100 bucks a man. There was a full field, quite abit money. There was some food and keg beer included.  Surprisingly there was 4 pins and only one skin. Turns out the head pro (PGA Professional) from a neighboring golf course won the one skin and 2 of the pins.  Close to $8000

I don't have sour grapes but I thought as a pro you couldn't play in money tournaments that were like this? am I wrong? I thought that pros could play in tourneys against their peers or in pro events. Is it a rule or just an unwritten rule and understanding?

 

 

[bkuehn1952]

Technically, you and your friend violated the Rules of Amateur Status by participating in an event with prize money.  As a professional, the PGA pro was actually doing exactly what his title suggests, playing golf professionally for money prizes.

 

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-of-amateur-status.html#!rule-03

[Spitfisher]

we forfited our amatuer status- had we won and had we accepted the money, is what you mean(?)

[Pendragon]

2 hours ago, Spitfisher said:

While Visiting a friend down in Fort worth area over the weekend. We played in a skins and pins  event. It was organized by some local guys, It cost a 100 bucks a man. There was a full field, quite abit money. There was some food and keg beer included.  Surprisingly there was 4 pins and only one skin. Turns out the head pro (PGA Professional) from a neighboring golf course won the one skin and 2 of the pins.  Close to $8000

I don't have sour grapes but I thought as a pro you couldn't play in money tournaments that were like this? am I wrong? I thought that pros could play in tourneys against their peers or in pro events. Is it a rule or just an unwritten rule and understanding?

 

 

Being a PGA pro doesn't automatically make you a good player. I've often played in skins games where pros participated and, for the most part, they didn't do any better than anyone else. There's usually a bit of luck with skins, especially in situations like what you're describing, where only one skin holds up. Making lots of birdies certainly helps, but if you birdie the right hole having only one is all you need sometimes. 

Most PGA pros I know don't even get to play very often due to the demands of their jobs. It's just my opinion, but you're making a big deal out of nothing. Why would a PGA pro be prohibited from playing any kind of money game where amateurs are involved? The game you're describing doesn't sound like any sort of organized event, anyway...just a bunch of guys getting together to see if they can get into someone else's pocket.  

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, Pendragon said:

Being a PGA pro doesn't automatically make you a good player. I've often played in skins games where pros participated and, for the most part, they didn't do any better than anyone else. There's usually a bit of luck with skins, especially in situations like what you're describing, where only one skin holds up. Making lots of birdies certainly helps, but if you birdie the right hole having only one is all you need sometimes. 

Most PGA pros I know don't even get to play very often due to the demands of their jobs. It's just my opinion, but you're making a big deal out of nothing. Why would a PGA pro be prohibited from playing any kind of money game where amateurs are involved? The game you're describing doesn't sound like any sort of organized event, anyway...just a bunch of guys getting together to see if they can get into someone else's pocket.  

@Spitfisher is only asking a question. You don't need to read anymore into it than that.

[bkuehn1952]

8 hours ago, Spitfisher said:

we forfited our amatuer status- had we won and had we accepted the money, is what you mean(?)

No. By participating in an event where you could have won money violates the rules of amateur status. Technically you would have had to sign a statement prior to the event stating you would not accept any of the prize money if you won. 

On occasion amateurs have run into problems with this type of event.  They play and win.  Then six months later they enter their club championship or the state amateur and a jealous member brings up the past event.

In your case, since you did not win, it is doubtful the USGA or a state association is going to make an issue of it.

[Hardspoon]

9 hours ago, Spitfisher said:

I don't have sour grapes but I thought as a pro you couldn't play in money tournaments that were like this? am I wrong? I thought that pros could play in tourneys against their peers or in pro events. Is it a rule or just an unwritten rule and understanding?

As @bkuehn1952 mentioned, this was a pro event. It clearly crosses the line from "gambling" (OK for amateurs) into "playing for prize money".

http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/amateur-status/usga-policy-on-gambling-78282bad.html

I can understand your reaction, since it seemed to you like a casual event organized by one person, but in reality it was a professional golf tournament that happened to allow anyone to enter.

I'd imagine that an $8k purse probably attracted a few pros, other than the one(s) you knew about. 

[Spitfisher]

Although I can appreciate the advice concerning amateur status, I can assure you it won't be an issue me or with this group that attended. Mostly weekend player types with families and careers.

lets go back to the original question, not from a rules Perse but from an ethic, reputation and general well being. BKuehen you see nothing wrong at all. If I am understanding correctly

My assumption is wrong, but for this late season skins and pins by local members and out of town guests playing in it. I think they see this as ethically wrong. I.e. No other pros from 7-8 clubs in the area played in it.  This pro is scratch plus golfer.

[Hardspoon]

8 minutes ago, Spitfisher said:

My assumption is wrong, but for this late season skins and pins by local members and out of town guests playing in it. I think they see this as ethically wrong. I.e. No other pros from 7-8 clubs in the area played in it.  This pro is scratch plus golfer.

Was everyone else who played a member or guest? Was the pro a guest of someone?

I just can't see how you can hold an open tournament with prize money and expect certain groups of people not to enter, unless you specify ("members and guests only" or something).

If it was specified for "members and guests", and he showed up and was allowed to play...sure, that's wrong, but it has nothing to do with him being a pro.

[Papa Steve 55]

My course had events like that. As a 12 I would not participate/donate. A lot of others felt the same way and the field got smaller and smaller as the same few guys won year after year. What my pro did was make up three man teams, two ams with a pro and award team skins. Its a pretty full event now.

[Spitfisher]

When I said yes I meant people from out of town or who ordinarily do not play in the event Apparently after speaking with some event usually is a sell-out meaning that there's people waiting to get in. There was only one pro that played in the tournament this seemed to be a concern after the tournament that this guy played in it my guess is next year there will be an understanding that Pros will not be allowed to play in it this is what prompted this thread was not about the amateurs playing in it but the pro playing in it whether it's a rule or it's just kind of a mutual understanding

[Club Rat]

5 minutes ago, Spitfisher said:

pro playing in it whether it's a rule or it's just kind of a mutual understanding

I would say neither.

Through many years playing in all type of events which involved pros at various levels, I have only heard of one objection by an amateur, and that was over a measly five dollar skins side game.

I would think a $100 entry in a Skins Game would attract many pros and scratch golfers.

[Rainmaker]

I don't see any problem with it - as a mid capper, you probably want to avoid big skins games.  Unless it specifically said "No Pros" . .which, in itself would be kind of arbitrary, because what about the low single digit (or plus) am?  He's just as good as many pros. 

My teacher played in a regional pro tournament last year  - for teaching and club pros - and I checked the results.  A whole lot of high scores - high 70's to high 80's accounted for more than half the field with only 1 guy shooting under (1 under).  I'm sure there are some avid amateurs around who could have absolutely run away with it. 

[David in FL]

Unless the event was billed as strictly an amateur event, I really don't see a problem.  In an event like that, I'm surprised there weren't more scratch and better players.  Regardless of their pro/am status, a +2 is a +2, and if the event isn't flighted, I pretty much understand my chances going in.  

[TN94z]

I don't see the issue. Like mentioned above, it was an open event, it sounds like, so he had every right to play in it.

[bkuehn1952]

Ultimately, the onus is on the organizers to properly limit the field if that is their desire.  Our city has annually held a men's city championship.  Originally it was called the Ann Arbor City Golf Championship.  One year a professional entered (local guy) and won.  The next year it was the Ann Arbor City Amateur Golf Championship.  Then a woman entered.  The following year it was the Ann Arbor City Men's Amateur Golf Championship. (there is also a city Women's event so it is not like there was blatant discrimination).

The organizers learned the hard way to properly set the qualifications for entry.

2 hours ago, Spitfisher said:

lets go back to the original question, not from a rules Perse but from an ethic, reputation and general well being. BKuehn you see nothing wrong at all. If I am understanding correctly?

Correct.  The event appears to have been "open".  I can understand the surprise at having a professional participate if the event had been run for many years with the tacit understanding that it was supposed to be for members and non-professional guests.  I suspect that next year there may be some restrictions.  

[Spitfisher]

Ok, so it's clear, unless otherwise indicated pros can play.

 

Now, Does your club pro or director of golf play in this type of an event????

 

Yes or no?

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, Spitfisher said:

Ok, so it's clear, unless otherwise indicated pros can play.

 

Now, Does your club pro or director of golf play in this type of an event????

 

Yes or no?

I've known a couple of pros at my club(s) over the years to have played in similar type events.

I don't really keep track of where they do or don't play if it's not something I'm personally involved in though...