YouTube Instruction Discussion

[JonMA1]

If someone claims that YouTube helped their game, why would anyone question that? Especially since they aren't describing how much it helped.

Different people learn in different ways. I have to believe certain swing thoughts or descriptions click for some and don't for others. Doesn't mean the information is useless or invalid.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

If someone claims that YouTube helped their game, why would anyone question that? Especially since they aren't describing how much it helped.

Who is doing that?

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Different people learn in different ways. I have to believe certain swing thoughts or descriptions click for some and don't for others. Doesn't mean the information is useless or invalid.

No doubt.

But at the same time, those people are in a very small minority. Most people are better served not to go on YouTube and search stuff out, for many reasons.

18 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I've been trying to make sense of this concept. I still can't get my head around it.

What don't you get, specifically? (Note: there are people, plenty in my experience, who steepen the club without doing the right-shoulder-over-the-top move Mike demonstrates.)

Does it help you if I remind you of the Sasho/Como video about how a shallowed club wants to turn around the corner more, and "square itself up" more?

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Who is doing that?

 

On 11/25/2016 at 3:44 PM, iacas said:

Almost nobody. But golfers love to think that they're one quick tip away from breaking through.

If I've missed your point - such as a reference to the specific sites you replied to in @nevets88 post - I apologize in advance.

I would agree with your second sentence. Poorer players such as myself believe to some extent that there's one major hurdle to overcome before things become a little easier. I don't look for quick tips, but I do look for any kind of thought to help me get past what I believe to be a priority.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

No doubt.

But at the same time, those people are in a very small minority. Most people are better served not to go on YouTube and search stuff out, for many reasons.

I don't mean to be argumentative or disrespectful. This is a discussion I'd like to get something out of more than just making my point.

You have the perspective of seeing a multitude of students who likely share a pattern of similar mistakes. But there is good information on YouTube, IMO. I would site some of your own YouTube videos.

---

For those desperate to improve, but who cannot take lessons or seemingly cannot benefit from them, what else can we do? The way I see it, we can either learn to be happy with where we're at, or try to improve using what is at our disposal - along with our judgement. Of course there is information out there that's just wrong. But doesn't that likelihood exist with any other option?

Edited November 27, 2016 by JonMA1

[iacas]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

You have the perspective of seeing a multitude of students who likely share a pattern of similar mistakes. But there is good information on YouTube, IMO. I would site some of your own YouTube videos.

I never said there wasn't good info on there.

But I also said most people would be better served to not do go on there. They don't know what they're looking for, and the odds are really high that they'll wander down some wrong roads.

I've only ever said "most people" and "almost nobody." I don't say "nobody" or "all."

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

 

For those desperate to improve, but who cannot take lessons or seemingly cannot benefit from them, what else can we do?

If you cannot "benefit" from lessons, then perhaps the best thing you could do for your game would be to investigate why THAT is.

[JonMA1]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you cannot "benefit" from lessons, then perhaps the best thing you could do for your game would be to investigate why THAT is.

Thanks Erik. I ask myself that question a lot. The answer usually comes down more to personal ability than the quality of instruction. 

 

(BTW, I meant to "cite" your videos, not "site" them.)

[nevets88]

On 11/26/2016 at 7:36 AM, boogielicious said:

Looking at Pro swings helps a bit I think. You see commonalities that all great golfers have and many things that are different. This is was the 5 Simple Keys are based on, lots of research into what the commonalities are. 

But to really improve, you need to see your swing and see how you compare to those commonalities. You may be able to do it by yourself, but a well trained eye will certainly help more.

One common thing of good pros I noticed is that they look at a ton of video. I am finding that looking at good swings (pro, am, young, old, big, small, etc...) in realtime and high frame rates I am becoming better at reading my own swing and better at noticing when something is really off. I never really looked at video with a discerning eye until recently because I thought it was above my pay grade, but trust in your eyes and instincts. It can help you wade through the BS.

In addition to YouTube, there is more paid content available - I'm a subscriber to a couple of pros (GG and Tyler Ferrell for example) and find their content is better than your typical YT content. They go a teeny bit into matching up patterns - you don't hear too many YT channels mention that - Me and My Golf and the like, their descriptions are kind of vague - after you go through a portion of their videos, they kind of wear out their "bag of tricks" and start sounding the same.

[saevel25]

I still watch youtube on anything related to golf. There is rarely any trinket of information that I would apply to my game. If I did find anything I might post a question here on the forum or run it by my golf instructor to see if it is something worth considering. 

[colin007]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Does it help you if I remind you of the Sasho/Como video about how a shallowed club wants to turn around the corner more, and "square itself up" more?

Would you be able to point me in the direction of said video? Muchas Garcias.

[natureboy]

On 11/22/2016 at 1:56 PM, JonMA1 said:

Either you trust the instruction you're receiving or you don't. If someone is paying for instruction and at the same time, looking at YouTube videos, there's probably an issue.

Possibly, but one of the reasons golfers are confused is there are many valid methodologies/approaches being hawked. Caveat emptor applies doubly when the information is free. But if you get knowledgeable enough (comparing commonalities among popular instructors with good reps), you may get an indication that your teacher isn't as savvy as you'd like.

For example, if I found a teacher explaining a draw using the 'old' ball flight laws, I'd bolt. Also if you have some known issues (over the top / early extension) there may be some value in different drills or swing conceptualizations that might help with those issues offered by some of the more competent talking heads.

On 11/24/2016 at 1:55 PM, Hacker James said:

Even so, nothing really new. I guess King Solomon summed it up best: "There is nothing new under the sun, for all is vanity".  oh...Hogan did a pretty good job too.

+1 for the Solomon as likely author of Ecclesiastes. Didn't know that before.

On 11/25/2016 at 9:23 AM, RussUK said:

however, having watched LET player (and golf's first lady....according to Mr Crossfield) Sophie Walker swing on home made clips i really understand the sequencing of the down swing as she has a very deliberate swing and noticable hip slide. I also think i may have a soft spot for her too.

Sophie seems like a lovely playing partner.

A nice thing about Crossfield's course vlogs is that they talk quite a bit (in-between dumping on Lockey/Charlie Brown <is Crossfield Lucy?>) about course management and sizing up holes. Even though their games are significantly different from mine I find it informative in a general way and there's very little out there in freeville covering course management.

Crossfield has deserved teaching cred IMO because he's done some nice 'study' vids where he's talked about certain common issues golfers may have often with a 'fresh take' like looking at the 2-D 'increasing the lag' illusion from a shallowing club in a 3-D video, focusing on handle height relative to strike / clubhead control, and the gem 'have you ever tried hitting it more out of the toe' for a guy with heel strike issues. I also like the way he combines 'feel' discussions with review of swing / strike data. He seems to try to demystify 'arcane' stuff.

IMO there are others worth watching too.

[JonMA1]

17 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Possibly, but one of the reasons golfers are confused is there are many valid methodologies/approaches being hawked. Caveat emptor applies doubly when the information is free. But if you get knowledgeable enough (comparing commonalities among popular instructors with good reps), you may get an indication that your teacher isn't as savvy as you'd like.

For example, if I found a teacher explaining a draw using the 'old' ball flight laws, I'd bolt. Also if you have some known issues (over the top / early extension) there may be some value in different drills or swing conceptualizations that might help with those issues offered by some of the more competent talking heads.

 

Wouldn't that qualify as an "issue"?

Sure, if new to the sport it makes sense to confirm whether or not you've made a good choice, and research may be the only way to do that. But if I'm doubting an instructor or am confused to the point where I feel there's a need to get other information, why on Earth would I continue paying them good money. 

Also, if I'm doing something contrary to what an instructor is telling me, I can only blame myself when I don't improve.

I didn't mean to come across as telling others what they should do. It was more a matter of how I approach it.

[Ernest Jones]

14 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Thanks Erik. I ask myself that question a lot. The answer usually comes down more to personal ability than the quality of instruction.

Could be you need direct, face to face instruction. Video instruction  works fine for most people, but some people need hands on instruction. 

Or maybe your practice habits are bad? 

 

[natureboy]

13 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Wouldn't that qualify as an "issue"?

Sure, if new to the sport it makes sense to confirm whether or not you've made a good choice, and research may be the only way to do that. But if I'm doubting an instructor or am confused to the point where I feel there's a need to get other information, why on Earth would I continue paying them good money. 

Also, if I'm doing something contrary to what an instructor is telling me, I can only blame myself when I don't improve.

I didn't mean to come across as telling others what they should do. It was more a matter of how I approach it.

Yes. Didn't read that 'issue' pertained to either instructor or student.

I can also think of a scenario where the instructor had a very good eye or was skilled at interpreting swing data, but was a poor communicator. He tells you that you have 'x' issue. You don't quite get what he's saying. You go home and research issue 'x' a bit and you find some explanations / analogies that are clearer to you so they next session with your guy or during your practice 'homework' sessions the concept of the issue and the purpose of the corrective drills make more sense. Potential benefits from that are greater trust/comfort which could help make future lessons and practice more efficient / effective, as well as greater personal understanding for more self-reliance.

Edited November 28, 2016 by natureboy

[JonMA1]

10 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Could be you need direct, face to face instruction. Video instruction  works fine for most people, but some people need hands on instruction. 

Or maybe your practice habits are bad? 

I'm not sure about the instruction. Maybe.

Almost certainly on my practice habits. I'm working on improving the way I practice. When I've used the 5S's approach, I've experienced enough progress to know it's the real deal.

5 hours ago, natureboy said:

I can also think of a scenario where the instructor had a very good eye or was skilled at interpreting swing data, but was a poor communicator. He tells you that you have 'x' issue. You don't quite get what he's saying. You go home and research issue 'x' a bit and you find some explanations / analogies that are clearer to you so they next session with your guy or during your practice 'homework' sessions the concept of the issue and the purpose of the corrective drills make more sense. Potential benefits from that are greater trust/comfort which could help make future lessons and practice more efficient / effective, as well as greater personal understanding for more self-reliance.

I'd agree with this.

[phillyk]

I haven't really watched any golf youtube videos except for some of the 5 keys stuff.  I've watched a ton of Adam Scott swing videos, though.  Mostly because it's such a nice swing to look at.

But, when I think of general instructional videos, I think of golf magazines.  They can provide a wealth of information, but a lot of things are very swing specific, like one concept or swing thought might work for me and something completely different is needed for my friend to accomplish the same outcome.  This can't be found by a general youtube video, and I guess that's kind of been the reason I don't watch them.  I could see watching them purely for the educational part, but then again there maybe lots of people making videos that have no clue what they're talking about.

[Effington]

On 11/25/2016 at 1:25 PM, nevets88 said:

I wonder why Me and My Golf and other popular YT channels are so popular. Me and My Golf and Chris Ryan's channels have high production values, great presentation and very easy to digest but to me, they sound very similar and it's still basically self-diagnosis. You have Mike Malaska's channel where his sort of "one tip rules them all" of internally/externally rotating the trail/target arm early would be disaster for me but lots of people swearing by it. I really just wonder how many people are really improving their swings from these videos. 

 

I think that's precisely why they're so popular.  I am a fan of Me and My Golf because the presenters have good communication skills and the videos are well produced.  They have an element of professionalism that many others don't.  There are a lot of videos out there that have similar information, but don't do the other things as well.

That being said, to the point of the thread, I feel that I've learned some characteristics of common good golf swings from the variety of videos I've seen as well as pick up on some golf jargon.  While it obviously doesn't point out my specific swing flaws and priorities I need to work on, I am able to see a video of my swing and point out a variety of problems.

That doesn't necessarily help with my golf swing today, but I would hope down the line the information will be useful.

[ChunkOfFairway]

Golf Sidekick is great. He doesn't teach swing tips just good old course management. 

Here are some of his videos with tips on course management:

 

 

He preaches that you shouldn't change your swing and only get help from a professional if you have swing issues.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, ChunkOfFairway said:

He preaches that you shouldn't change your swing and only get help from a professional if you have swing issues.

If you can't break 100, or 90, or even 80… your swing has "issues."

Also… @golfsidekick is kind of a douche:

We've discussed these videos in other topics, too. Not a fan.

[Keep It Simple]

I enjoy watching Gears 3D motion analysis being used on professional golf swings.  So youtube videos with this content peak my interest.   I have applied some of the information obtained from these videos and found it to be useful.