Balls in a Position to Assist on the Putting Green

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Acknowledging that he doesn't want the ball moving and that you now don't intend to?

Happens all the time. You'd have a really hard time proving that they were doing something wrong.

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Acknowledging that he doesn't want the ball moving and that you now don't intend to?

Nope, that's presumptuous.  It's acknowledging that he doesn't care that it's there, not that he necessarily wants it there.  

[Rulesman]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Happens all the time. You'd have a really hard time proving that they were doing something wrong.

Perhaps. A referee wouldn't have to 'prove' it. He could just make a judgement and require the player to move it..

But it is really down to the conscience of the players.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Rulesman

[rehmwa]

20 hours ago, Lihu said:

Okay, now I know why I always mark, back to that method. I don't want to be accused of ""

(as long as you're consistent)

or never mark until asked, don't talk about it at all except for a direct request, don't expect a marked ball unless you ask the other guy

[colin007]

11 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

(as long as you're consistent)

or never mark until asked, don't talk about it at all except for a direct request, don't expect a marked ball unless you ask the other guy

thats basically me. i hardly ever mark.  theres nothing wrong with having multiple balls on the green at the same time whilst someones putting if its not on their line.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, colin007 said:

thats basically me. i hardly ever mark.  theres nothing wrong with having multiple balls on the green at the same time whilst someones putting if its not on their line.

 

If we're all putting, every ball is marked. It's rare for me to play with golfers who don't mark when everyone is on the green? However, the main topic is for chipping, and my plan is to continue to mark every time as I have been.

 

26 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

(as long as you're consistent)

or never mark until asked, don't talk about it at all except for a direct request, don't expect a marked ball unless you ask the other guy

The way I read @Rulesman's posts, marking is the most prudent thing to do.

I might be wrong, but as I thought a bit about it more, it seems like not marking (although not required) is implicitly agreeing to assist any other player? If the ball is clearly in their chipping path that's usually when people actually ask for others to mark?

Pace of play is not really an issue, because most people I know spend time practicing their stroke and analyzing the greens a bit before making their chip. They're usually on the green anyway and that's generally when others get the opportunity to mark their balls.

[phillyk]

I had a case where something similar happened.  It was a par 3, during a tournament, and I hit last and put the ball 2 feet from the cup on the low side.  One of the 2 other guys started to his ball where it was on a ridge to the right of green and high side of the cup.  Before I could get close to the green, he chipped, intending to use my ball as a backstop if he needed one (he told me after the shot that he hurried so he could do that).  He didn't hit my ball, he actually hit the flagstick.  But only after his shot did I get to the green to mark my ball.  

I assume what he did was ok?  There was no agreement, it was him rushing to use the situation.

[Golfingdad]

28 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I had a case where something similar happened.  It was a par 3, during a tournament, and I hit last and put the ball 2 feet from the cup on the low side.  One of the 2 other guys started to his ball where it was on a ridge to the right of green and high side of the cup.  Before I could get close to the green, he chipped, intending to use my ball as a backstop if he needed one (he told me after the shot that he hurried so he could do that).  He didn't hit my ball, he actually hit the flagstick.  But only after his shot did I get to the green to mark my ball.  

I assume what he did was ok?  There was no agreement, it was him rushing to use the situation.

Yeah, I think he was fine for the exact reason you stated.  However, I think he was dumb.  I would think that the miniscule chance that he might hit a ball that he's not aiming for is a lot lower than his chances of screwing up the shot by rushing.

37 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I might be wrong, but as I thought a bit about it more, it seems like not marking (although not required) is implicitly agreeing to assist any other player?

In the cases I'm talking about above, I disagree.  They are more like the situation that @phillyk described where one player just played his shot without really waiting for the other to mark.  However if the case is one where the player clearly has enough time to go mark and is just standing there doing nothing, then I think you're probably right.

Also, every once in awhile at our level, you'll get a guy who doesn't know the rule and flat out ask if you want him to leave his ball there.  At that point, the safe thing to do is to say no and have him mark.

(There is a video of an odd situation like you describe on a thread on here somewhere.  I'll try and find it.)

[Lihu]

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

In the cases I'm talking about above, I disagree.  They are more like the situation that @phillyk described where one player just played his shot without really waiting for the other to mark.  However if the case is one where the player clearly has enough time to go mark and is just standing there doing nothing, then I think you're probably right.

Also, every once in awhile at our level, you'll get a guy who doesn't know the rule and flat out ask if you want him to leave his ball there.  At that point, the safe thing to do is to say no and have him mark.

(There is a video of an odd situation like you describe on a thread on here somewhere.  I'll try and find it.)

Thanks, I'll dig around as well.

I agree if the person is ready to hit, then we should let him do so out of courtesy.

 

37 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I had a case where something similar happened.  It was a par 3, during a tournament, and I hit last and put the ball 2 feet from the cup on the low side.  One of the 2 other guys started to his ball where it was on a ridge to the right of green and high side of the cup.  Before I could get close to the green, he chipped, intending to use my ball as a backstop if he needed one (he told me after the shot that he hurried so he could do that).  He didn't hit my ball, he actually hit the flagstick.  But only after his shot did I get to the green to mark my ball.  

I assume what he did was ok?  There was no agreement, it was him rushing to use the situation.

 

Clearly, there was no collusion here.

I only wish me and my playing partners were good enough to take advantage of this type of situation.

[Golfingdad]

16 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I only wish me and my playing partners were good enough to take advantage of this type of situation.

But it's not a benefit for a good shot - it's a benefit for a shot that you screwed up.

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

But it's not a benefit for a good shot - it's a benefit for a shot that you screwed up.

But what a heck of a way to scramble!

[iacas]

1 hour ago, phillyk said:

I assume what he did was ok?  There was no agreement, it was him rushing to use the situation.

Yep.

If you had indicated that he should wait so you could mark the ball, though, and he chipped after you said that anyway, it'd be a different story.

[colin007]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

If we're all putting, every ball is marked. It's rare for me to play with golfers who don't mark when everyone is on the green?

 

off topic, but why? because you see the pros do it? it wastes time.

[rehmwa]

16 minutes ago, colin007 said:

off topic, but why? because you see the pros do it? it wastes time.

I'm not a fan of it either, but some people just 'have' to have a clear green while putting.  And if they respectfully ask me to mark, I cheerfully mark without comment.

 

It's a mental game, putting.  So I don't even care if the reason is not very reasonable, whatever they need, that's fine.

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, colin007 said:

off topic, but why? because you see the pros do it? it wastes time.

 

Doesn't really waste time. My playing partners and I usually mark at the same time, as soon as everyone is on the green, and we still have to read the greens and pull the flag anyway. Some people even line up their balls and/or clean them, anyway, so having them preemptively marked doesn't actually take more time.

I also agree with @rehmwa that many golfers are kind of OCD about having a "clean" putting surface.

[colin007]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

 

Doesn't really waste time. My playing partners and I usually mark at the same time, as soon as everyone is on the green, and we still have to read the greens and pull the flag anyway. Some people even line up their balls and/or clean them, anyway, so having them preemptively marked doesn't actually take more time.

I also agree with @rehmwa that many golfers are kind of OCD about having a "clean" putting surface.

 

Of course it wastes time. You have to walk to it, mark it, then walk away. If it's already clean, just leave it. If it's not, mark it with your putter, wipe it off, then put it back. Saves time.

And do you think OCD golfers are more or less likely to be quick golfers? 

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, colin007 said:

 

Of course it wastes time. You have to walk to it, mark it, then walk away. If it's already clean, just leave it. If it's not, mark it with your putter, wipe it off, then put it back. Saves time.

I think the consensus with my home course's playing partners is to mark everything. So, even if I don't, others will. We're not slow players by any means, but tend to do all these rituals. . .

 

Quote

And do you think OCD golfers are more or less likely to be quick golfers? 

Well, okay, you got me on this one, even though I never claimed that OCD golfers were "fast".

[colin007]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think the consensus with my home course's playing partners is to mark everything. So, even if I don't, others will. We're not slow players by any means, but tend to do all these rituals. . .

 

Well, okay, you got me on this one, even though I never claimed that OCD golfers were "fast".

Maybe if you stop, they'll see it's unnecessary? You could be a trend setter!!