Do Bad Boys Hurt The Sport?

[1badbadger]

Football has them.  Basketball has them.  And to a lesser extent so does baseball, hockey, and even tennis and bowling.  Bad boys.  These are the guys who always seem to be surrounded by controversy, drama, and end up making headlines for things that don't have anything to do with their performance in the last game or match they played.

Golf has kept it's image pretty clean for a long time, but there has been a few notable exceptions and some smaller ones as well.  A few that come to mind are John Daly, Rory Sabatini and Tiger Woods.  You could probably throw Steve Elkington and Dustin Johnson in if you wanted too.  These guys have all had their share of incidences that created news that was reported on by the mainstream media or tabloids for something they said or did which didn't portray them in the best light.

It's more common in other sports and not a big surprise when other athletes do questionable things, and I'm not condoning it, but it doesn't seem to have hurt any of these sports long-term.  Is golf different in this respect?  Are Tour players held to a higher standard by the general public than players in other sports?  As purses continue to grow and there is an increased chance for younger players to become wealthier at a younger age, are we going to have situations where fame and fortune came so fast they don't know how to handle it?

Let's hear your thoughts on this.

[uitar9]

I think about society in general. It has a % of "bad boys". I would think golf would have no lower %, especially when throwing in the money and adoration.

[Patch]

All walks of life will always have situations where fame and fortune has come too fast for some folks. The various pro golf circuits are no different. 

Does the public hold pro golfers to a higher standard than other sports? I don't think so. If anything, I think pro golf in general likes to think it holds it's sport to a higher standard than other pro sports. 

The last few years as I have been following highschool sports, due to my grandkids involvement, I have already seen some of these "bad boy" players starting to evolve. Some, even at the junior highschool level. These youngsters might well become  those young adults who won't be able to handle their fame, and fortune in a suitable manner. 

In the end, all pro leagues, and athletes are entertainers. As entertainers, those with bad boy attitudes, will still be entertaining with their off the field antics. I think there is a large percentage of fans, and spectators that like to be entertained by those off the firld antics. 

[iacas]

Golf isn't a game of violence, and whether it's politically correct or not to say, it courts a different market segment: golfers tend to be better off, even as children, than a lot of football and basketball players.

So even though golf has a few "bad boys" their actions are pretty darn tame.

As such, I can't even really call them "bad boys," but if you're calling them that, then I'll vote that "no, they don't hurt the sport." Plus, the sport is far, far bigger than them.

[JxQx]

I don't really think golf has had any "bad boys" and to be honest I don't really ever will. There are very rare instances of smack talk and any off the course issues compared to most other sports to garner that type of image.

[Elmer]

John Daly has had some issues in his past, but far from a "bad boy"
Rory Sabatini is just a "richard" plain and simple.
Tiger Woods had his off course issues become public.
In fact I would argue that many more professional athletes engage in what Tiger did, it just doesn't go public.

I think a true "bad boy" in golf would be someone who behaves like tiger, openly, yet plays like Tiger in his prime!
If a golf "bad boy" did not play at the top level and win consistently the media would blame the "bad boy" lifestyle as a reason for the lack of success.

But I have to agree with @iacas, most golfers are coming from a slightly entitled and economically advantaged background so you will not see alot of Pac-man jones/Johnny Manziel type behavior.
 

[1badbadger]

1 hour ago, Elmer said:

John Daly has had some issues in his past, but far from a "bad boy"
Rory Sabatini is just a "richard" plain and simple.
Tiger Woods had his off course issues become public.
In fact I would argue that many more professional athletes engage in what Tiger did, it just doesn't go public.

I think a true "bad boy" in golf would be someone who behaves like tiger, openly, yet plays like Tiger in his prime!
If a golf "bad boy" did not play at the top level and win consistently the media would blame the "bad boy" lifestyle as a reason for the lack of success.

But I have to agree with @iacas, most golfers are coming from a slightly entitled and economically advantaged background so you will not see alot of Pac-man jones/Johnny Manziel type behavior.
 

I agree with @iacas also that the majority of guys on Tour have had a different upbringing which plays a part, and I have a feeling that a team sport vs. an individual sport might also make a difference on some level, but that is just a theory with no real evidence to back it up.

But if you don't think John Daly is a bad boy, then the PGA Tour has done an even better job than I thought at maintaining the public image of the Tour and it's players (no sarcasm...they actually do a great job at minimizing any "conduct unbecoming").  I'd put John up against anyone from any other sport in terms of debauchery and extreme behavior.  This is an excerpt from a really good article written less than a year ago when Daly turned 50 and became eligible for the Champions Tour:   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-3561438/John-Daly-turns-50-major-wins-battling-addictions-booze-sex-gambling-extraordinary-tale-Wild-Thing.html#ixzz4Ya7xcENp 

"But Daly’s unique talent and man-of-the-people persona not only helped him stand out on the course, it also proved his downfall off it. In the aftermath of his breakthrough win at Crooked Stick, Daly admits he contemplated suicide. The following year, he thought about driving his Mercedes off a cliff in Palm Springs, California.

‘I just didn’t fit in. You know what I mean?’ he told USA Today’s Josh Peter. ‘I wasn’t a silver-spoon kid on the golf course growing up. And no disrespect to any of them, but it was hard for me to get to know some of the guys on Tour.’

Born in California but raised in the small town of Dardanelle, Arkansas, Daly was a country boy among the country club kids.

He didn’t endear himself to his fellow pros any further when, without proof, he claimed in the summer of 1994 that many other golfers took cocaine, and called for better drug testing. Daly didn’t play again that season and blamed exhaustion, but the suspicion remained that he had to steer clear of the other players, who were seething."

"By then, however, his problems with alcohol had already begun. His addictive personality manifests itself in everything from cigarettes to soft drinks, but booze has been the most destructive. As a result of drinking, hotel rooms have been trashed, such as at the Players Championship in 1997, and big-money contracts have been lost, such as his $3m deal with Callaway which was cancelled in 1999."

What John has going for him in my opinion that some of the other bad boys from other sports don't have is that he is really likable.  This, plus the Tour's excellent P.R. Dept keeps things to a minimum.

[David in FL]

Hurt the sport?  No.

Color my opinion of those few individually?  Absolutely.

[jamo]

All of the examples all seem pretty weak as far as "bad boys" go. They sound more like whiners or assholes to me. It's not like they're body-checking opponents into water hazards.

[Kalnoky]

2 hours ago, Elmer said:

I would argue that many more professional athletes engage in what Tiger did, it just doesn't go public.
 

Of course. In a previous life I worked at a company that represented several NFL players. Some of those players had people on staff whose job it was to manage their mistresses. Occasionally I got sideline passes and access to the bus after games. Quite a stunning collection of ladies waiting for these guys after games - I'm talking Elle and Vogue cover models.

When Tiger does the exact same thing as other athletes, Tiger is shamed. I don't know if it's good or bad for golf, but there is a double standard for golfers, no question.

 

13 minutes ago, jamo said:

All of the examples all seem pretty weak as far as "bad boys" go. They sound more like whiners or assholes to me. It's not like they're body-checking opponents into water hazards.

That's a good distinction too

Edited February 13, 2017 by Kalnoky

[Groucho Valentine]

2 hours ago, Elmer said:

John Daly has had some issues in his past, but far from a "bad boy"
Rory Sabatini is just a "richard" plain and simple.
Tiger Woods had his off course issues become public.
In fact I would argue that many more professional athletes engage in what Tiger did, it just doesn't go public.

I think a true "bad boy" in golf would be someone who behaves like tiger, openly, yet plays like Tiger in his prime!
If a golf "bad boy" did not play at the top level and win consistently the media would blame the "bad boy" lifestyle as a reason for the lack of success.

But I have to agree with @iacas, most golfers are coming from a slightly entitled and economically advantaged background so you will not see alot of Pac-man jones/Johnny Manziel type behavior.
 

Ikr? You cant tell me that Arnold Palmer didn't have a honey in every state back in the day. No way in hell he didn't 

Golfs definition of a bad boy is different. But its had its share of outliers just as much as any other sport. 

[Big C]

In general, "bad boys" create discussion and debate. And therefore they are good for the sport. 

As far as I'm concerned, golf has no one who would even approach that definition. Patrick Reed is probably the closest and he only really embraces the role of the heel for one week during the Ryder Cup.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, 1badbadger said:

I'd put John up against anyone from any other sport in terms of debauchery and extreme behavior.

But… you'd literally be comparing him to guys who have been convicted of murder.

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, jamo said:

All of the examples all seem pretty weak as far as "bad boys" go. They sound more like whiners or assholes to me. It's not like they're body-checking opponents into water hazards.

I would put money on any other sports "bad boy" vs a PGA "bad boy", in terms of badA$$ness ( I know that is not a real word).
I dont recall anyone on the PGA pulling a Ray Lewis or Ray Rice.
no golfer ever shot himself in the leg like Plexico,
Or have incidents like Allen Iverson?
or suspensions for drugs like Steve Howe?
Daly was an addict who made a lot of poor choices, not really "bad boy" type stuff.

Than again Daly's behavior is probably considered "bad boy" by the starchy shirts type who grew up in counrty clubs.

1 hour ago, Kalnoky said:

Of course. In a previous life I worked at a company that represented several NFL players. Some of those players had people on staff whose job it was to manage their mistresses. Occasionally I got sideline passes and access to the bus after games. Quite a stunning collection of ladies waiting for these guys after games - I'm talking Elle and Vogue cover models.

When Tiger does the exact same thing as other athletes, Tiger is shamed. I don't know if it's good or bad for golf, but there is a double standard for golfers, no question.

 

That's a good distinction too

NBA players have been known to have "road wives", which are the girlfriend you take on the road while your wife watches the kids.
I would not be surprised if most other sports dont have similar issues. 

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

But… you'd literally be comparing him to guys who have been convicted of murder.

Never heard of a golfer pulling a Rae Carruth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rae_Carruth

[chspeed]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

golfers tend to be better off, even as children, than a lot of football and basketball players.

Bingo

[1badbadger]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

But… you'd literally be comparing him to guys who have been convicted of murder.

Ok, let me make a distinction on this.  A professional athlete who commits murder isn't a bad boy...he's a murderer.  

I'm talking about the type of person who does things that are morally questionable and possibly illegal, who exhibits reckless or shocking behavior which might make headlines, and is disciplined by the governing body of their sport.  This is not a hard and fast definition BTW.

An example of what I do not consider bad boy behavior is the Robert Allenby train wreck in Hawaii.  Yeah, it kind of fits most of the criteria I mentioned, but it was more of a one-off situation, plus it was just stupid.

An example of what I do consider bad boy behavior...in the mid '90s during a particular Tour event, one of the sponsors threw a formal cocktail party at a swanky hotel one night during the week of the tournament. It was just below a "black-tie" event, so you don't have to wear a tux, but you need to dress nice, and it was held in one of the suites.  There were many Tour players and their wives or girlfriends in attendance, including John Daly and his "date".  There was an open bar which John was taking advantage of.  People were milling about and socializing when suddenly people notice John standing in the middle of the room, pants around his ankles, girlfriend's dress pulled up, banging her as if no one else is there.  That's what I consider bad boy behavior, and yes it's a true story.  And there are many more.

[graham57]

I'm going to differ from a lot of the opinions expressed here: I do believe that golf is special, in that - contrary to most other sports - golf (at least at the amateur level) is basically played without a referee. Calling a penalty on yourself requires a degree of honesty and integrity which are a far cry from the "let's see what we can get away with" of other sports. Which other sport has the concept of etiquette as an integral part of its make-up? For me, these are the aspects of our sport which contribute so much to building character in young people playing the game (much more than dress code or other superficialities, which in my opinion serve mainly to move golf further away from the reality of young people's lives). Throwing a club into a pond or breaking a shaft after a poor shot contradict the behavioural standards of golf. Having said that, this all relates to a golfer's behaviour on the course. I think it would be unrealistic (and in the end unfair) to demand of golfers a higher degree of morality off the course, than on it, although I would hope that the social and ethical standards of the game itself would actually prompt golfers to maintain similar standards in their private lives.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, 1badbadger said:

Ok, let me make a distinction on this.  A professional athlete who commits murder isn't a bad boy...he's a murderer.  

Then I'm not sure I see the point, because now we're tasked with trying to figure out if Tiger's stuff not only "hurt the sport" but then if it was also beyond "bad boy" behavior. I can't speak for others but I don't want to spend the mental energy when, really, any type of "bad" behavior is pretty rare, considering.