NCAA Suspends 5 College Baseball Players for Fantasy Football

[Golfingdad]

17 minutes ago, freshmanUTA said:

Especially when it's a free league.

This isn't verified.  OP says he knows somebody who said it was a free league, but the article linked specifically talks about leagues with entry fees as being violations, which directly implies that leagues without money involved are not violations.

Considering that the school seemed to agree with the NCAA that there were violations, then the facts we have lean towards this not having been a free league at all.

[mcanadiens]

Part of what makes NCAA punishments seem petty is that they have a very hard time catching the perpetrators. For the few that get caught it's a bit hard to swallow because you know perfectly well that a large number of other athletes or programs are doing the very same thing. Those five baseball players probably know dozens of other athletes at their same school guilty of the same thing. 

 

 

 

[NCGolfer]

2 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Part of what makes NCAA punishments seem petty is that they have a very hard time catching the perpetrators.

True, but there are examples where you catch the perpetrator and still can't figure out how to punish them.  (See: UNC)
 

4 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

For the few that get caught it's a bit hard to swallow because you know perfectly well that a large number of other athletes or programs are doing the very same thing. 

And that is basically UNC's defense...or at least how most of their supporters defend UNC.  I have opinions on this but that is .

 

9 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Those five baseball players probably know dozens of other athletes at their same school guilty of the same thing. 

Hell, I'd bet their pool had more than that in athletes alone!  

[Wally Fairway]

I think I'm most troubled by this statements - "The five players will remain suspended until the NCAA completes the reinstatement process"

Yeah, the whole we'll get back to you aspect, when those kids are on a limited eligibility clock is kind of bunk. Tell them it is a season, or 10 games or forever, but to just say we don't know how or when to reinstate you is weak sauce.
And FWIW, in my opinion they are taking older rules and making them fit newer issues like Fantasy sports.
Also, while I don't think the NCAA runs any March Madness pools, I do think they get license fees for allowing them to use/advertise them as March Madness and promote them during the broadcasts. Double standards and such.

I would love to know the back story on this, seems kind of random that a school self reports these secondary violations; and "only" five players are involved.

[No Mulligans]

Fantasy football is a pretty well accepted and pervasive cultural activity.  I can understand why NFL football players shouldn't play fantasy football, but anyone else...

This is like enforcing Jaywalking on a vacant street in a residential area.

[mistermuhl]

55 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Fantasy football is a pretty well accepted and pervasive cultural activity.  I can understand why NFL football players shouldn't play fantasy football, but anyone else...

This is like enforcing Jaywalking on a vacant street in a residential area.

 

Thats exactly my feelings as well. It's like Pete rose with the MLB. You can't bet on baseball as a player because you influence the game. That i understand.

[Pretzel]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Why?

The NCAA has a pretty strict "no gambling" policy.

Everyone's made VERY aware of this.

Exactly this. The NCAA, while strict in its rulings, does at least lay them out clearly.

Whether or not you think the rule is fair is one thing, but it was a very clear policy violation. Personally I think the rule should be kept similar to professional sports in that you're forbidden to gamble on events in your own sport and league (so NCAA D1 basketball players cannot gamble on NCAA D1 basketball games), but I don't see much harm in gambling on other events. It's not really a great habit to get into, gambling, but it isn't detrimental to the sport if it takes place in a fashion unrelated to their performance in any way.

The thing I wonder is how this affects college golf teams. I know my high school golf team regularly broke the CHSAA rule against gambling by making bets within the team (during practice rounds, not in tournaments), as well as a number of other teams that I know did the same. It was ignored because it wasn't to the detriment of competition, even though it happened during the state championship's official practice rounds (though it was covered up then). I doubt, however, that it would fly in the NCAA, but I haven't looked at the rule to know exactly where it draws the line besides saying, "no gambling".

[No Mulligans]

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Part of what makes NCAA punishments seem petty is that they have a very hard time catching the perpetrators. For the few that get caught it's a bit hard to swallow because you know perfectly well that a large number of other athletes or programs are doing the very same thing. Those five baseball players probably know dozens of other athletes at their same school guilty of the same thing. 

Yes, it seems violating NCAA rules on recruiting and player off the table benefits is necessary just to compete with the other big programs.  Getting caught and sanctioned is just a necessary "risk/cost of doing business".

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

This is like enforcing Jaywalking on a vacant street in a residential area.

Well, technically it's not because there is no such thing as jaywalking on a vacant street in a residential area.  It's been awhile (about 25 years now - so it's possible the rules are different) but the first time I went to traffic school I learned that the law for jaywalking only applies when the intersections in either direction are controlled and have crosswalks.

And back on topic:

I think that @NCGolfer made a good point regarding lumping all gambling together.  Sure, a baseball player who is into fantasy football is not gambling on his own sport, but what happens when he starts to fall in debt to somebody?  It takes awhile to snowball, but this is how point-shaving scandals come to fruition.

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, mistermuhl said:

I agree that the rule is cut and dried. I'm not really debating the legality of it. I am more concerned with the pettiness of it. 

And a guy I play with now went there and we were discussing it today he said that the league was unpaid. I'm not saying that it is guaranteed fact, I'm simply saying that based on my information, I feel that NCAA is splitting hairs. 

To take eligibility from guys who have lived and breathed baseball for their whole lives for participating in fantasy football feels insane. 

It's not petty. The kids agree to obey by NCAA bylaws when they compete in college sports. They broke the bylaws. 

It is part of being an athlete under an NCAA governed sport. Just because they play baseball, love baseball, put their heart and soul into it, doesn't mean they get a free pass from NCAA bylaws. 

It might be a can of worms for the NCAA to differentiate from non-pay to pay fantasy leagues, or leagues that do not pay out money at all versus ones where you do win money or do have to pay in. How much more investigation do they have to do to confirm money was transferred? I don't think the NCAA has the authority to subpoena that type of information to even confirm if money was transferred or won. It's pretty much up to the athlete, and school to cooperate with the NCAA. It would be more practical to just ban all fantasy sport leagues. 

 

[mistermuhl]

10 hours ago, saevel25 said:

It's not petty. The kids agree to obey by NCAA bylaws when they compete in college sports. They broke the bylaws. 

It is part of being an athlete under an NCAA governed sport. Just because they play baseball, love baseball, put their heart and soul into it, doesn't mean they get a free pass from NCAA bylaws. 

It might be a can of worms for the NCAA to differentiate from non-pay to pay fantasy leagues, or leagues that do not pay out money at all versus ones where you do win money or do have to pay in. How much more investigation do they have to do to confirm money was transferred? I don't think the NCAA has the authority to subpoena that type of information to even confirm if money was transferred or won. It's pretty much up to the athlete, and school to cooperate with the NCAA. It would be more practical to just ban all fantasy sport leagues. 

 

Nobody can argue that they broke a rule. They did. They are being punished. I just more want to point out that this is just one of so many other problems with the NCAA (title IV, brackets, scholarship allowance, recruiting). It just sucks to see these guys get grilled for something that a very high percentage of students, let alone athletes, participate in; for money or not. 

I get that they broke a rule. But I don't think anyone can argue that the NCAA can Be and frequently is ridiculous. 

[iacas]

43 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

Nobody can argue that they broke a rule. They did. They are being punished. I just more want to point out that this is just one of so many other problems with the NCAA (title IV, brackets, scholarship allowance, recruiting). It just sucks to see these guys get grilled for something that a very high percentage of students, let alone athletes, participate in; for money or not. 

I get that they broke a rule. But I don't think anyone can argue that the NCAA can Be and frequently is ridiculous. 

They are ridiculous. But not here. The guys broke a rule, and were caught.

Yeah, probably thousands and thousands of NCAA athletes play fantasy sports and/or gamble. But they can only punish those caught, and do what they deem a worthwhile expenditure of time/capital to catch more.

They seem to prefer to do a few high profile "busts" and keep it to that, and hope to keep the lid on things.

[Buckeyebowman]

Like Wanzo said you have to draw the line somewhere, but some of the places the NCAA has decided to draw those lines is pretty damn dumb! Like players can have bagels but having cream cheese to put on them just goes too far! HUH?! Besides, who has a bagel without a smear anyway?

Yes, March madness is NCAA basketball's big show, so much so that it has just about made the regular season irrelevant. At least is has for me. They want ratings, so they set their brackets, people bet on them like crazy, and it's all good because it encourages viewership.

After all, why does the NCAA football committee begin announcing rankings after week 5 or 6 (I think) of the season? There's really no need to do so, but it keeps their product front and center.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Yes, March madness is NCAA basketball's big show, so much so that it has just about made the regular season irrelevant. At least is has for me. They want ratings, so they set their brackets, people bet on them like crazy, and it's all good because it encourages viewership.

After all, why does the NCAA football committee begin announcing rankings after week 5 or 6 (I think) of the season? There's really no need to do so, but it keeps their product front and center.

So? This has nothing to do with the players being suspended. Just because the NCAA promotes their brand doesn't mean that players get to violate NCAA rules. 

I agree certain rules are stupid. The NCAA has no real investigating power except the threaten of sanctions for not cooperating. In the end, they have no way to subpoena information like bank records to tell if someone actually paid or gained money from betting. In the end, the NCAA has taken the stance of outlawing certain activities because of this. They want to make sure no one is betting. To do that they do not say, "Don't bet". They say, "No playing fantasy sports". That is totally fine.