Long-form piece on struggling in the world of mini-tours

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Lihu said:

What's funny is everything scales down too. I know a lot of players with swings that should be scratch, but score in the mid-80s.

I think you and I would disagree on our assessments of those players. It's highly unlikely IMO to be true, let alone that you know "a lot" of such players.

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

[Buckeyebowman]

11 hours ago, krupa said:

Yeah, at the end.  I think it was this bit that caught my eye was that after a season of missing cuts he says:

But I think that attitude is necessary to win.  There was a Radio Lab episode that looked at lying and a study was done that showed the most successful athletes at a college were also more likely to lie to themselves about things, not necessarily sports-related but personal things that we all do but they denied doing.  So that "I did well, I belong, I can compete" is an attitude that successful people all have, even when the majority of evidence (i.e., a season of missed cuts) says otherwise.

And that's interesting to me because I'm not wired that way.

This is the post that really grabbed me. There's an acoustic guitarist I like, Leo Kottke. Many years ago the PBS station near where he lives produced a DVD of him called "Home and Away". I features cuts of him in concert and around home. In one segment he talks about a philosopher who maintained that without the ability to lie, there were would be no art! No music, no literature, no plays, no nothing without the human ability to lie! It might have been Carl Jung.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I think you and I would disagree on our assessments of those players. It's highly unlikely IMO to be true, let alone that you know "a lot" of such players.

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

I have to agree. I can shoot mid 80's regularly, and I suck! And I know I'm not playing from the tips, but neither are the guys on the Champion's Tour and I'm 64! Back in the day I did play from the tips and scored quite a bit better than mid 80's. But if I'd have tried to make it on tour, I'd have been eaten alive!

Feherty has something to say about this in his essay "What's Old is New Again". In it he addresses the attitude that the modern Tour has become a gravy train. While it may have become that for some, it is not that for most. And this is the big Tour, not some mini tour!

And to quote; "Tour cards are scarcer than hen's teeth and if a pro gets one, he has to outwit, outplay, and outlast the rest while the sharks that have managed to perform the task for years are circling the terrified shoal of rookie minnows."

"For the record, most players on the PGA Tour still heave their own sweaty luggage around municipal airports, often accompanied by a long-suffering spouse and a couple of squelching diapers. Yummy. Okay, a courtesy car, free food, and a decent hotel room can help, but very few rookies manage to stay on Tour long enough for that kind of routine to get old".

It kind of reminds me of the "one and dones" in college basketball. Or the guys who went from high school straight to the pros back in the day. Everybody makes a fuss over those who make it, but no one seems to keep track of those who fell by the wayside. And the latter are way more numerous than the former!

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

I think you and I would disagree on our assessments of those players. It's highly unlikely IMO to be true, let alone that you know "a lot" of such players.

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

As a mid 80s playing, I agree with you 100%. Even the best players I get to play with are not close to having scratch ability or have great swings.

[Valleygolfer]

21 hours ago, Lihu said:

What's funny is everything scales down too. I know a lot of players with swings that should be scratch, but score in the mid-80s. Amazing. Great read too! Thanks for sharing. . .

This guys swing is nothing like like anyone who plays in the mid 80's. I haven't been to a pro tourney to see a pro swing up close but I have seen enough conjoballed swings that shoot near scratch that are nothing like Dylan's. This guy reeks of talent on the golf course.

On 3/24/2017 at 7:34 AM, Valleygolfer said:

I do. I mentioned his book a couple of years ago in the book section. I have also played golf with him. Hit a very long ball.

On @krupa note, he is a fairly nice guy and not at all arrogant or cocky.

This was my impression  in the way back. If anyone cares...

[krupa]

11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This is the post that really grabbed me. There's an acoustic guitarist I like, Leo Kottke. Many years ago the PBS station near where he lives produced a DVD of him called "Home and Away". I features cuts of him in concert and around home. In one segment he talks about a philosopher who maintained that without the ability to lie, there were would be no art! No music, no literature, no plays, no nothing without the human ability to lie! It might have been Carl Jung.

Here's the Radio Lab segment about self-deception:

http://www.radiolab.org/story/91618-lying-to-ourselves/

 

[nevets88]

3 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

This guys swing is nothing like like anyone who plays in the mid 80's. I haven't been to a pro tourney to see a pro swing up close but I have seen enough conjoballed swings that shoot near scratch that are nothing like Dylan's. This guy reeks of talent on the golf course.

This was my impression  in the way back. If anyone cares...

Conjoballed. LOL. 

[Valleygolfer]

20 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Conjoballed. LOL. 

I know right?

[Lihu]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

I think you and I would disagree on our assessments of those players. It's highly unlikely IMO to be true, let alone that you know "a lot" of such players.

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

Yeah, I suppose the reason why they're shooting mid-80s might make a dramatic difference as well, and "a lot" is like 2 players out of the hundreds I know.

They have very solid swings, but can't seem to score. The two of them have shot mid 70s scores, but not that often. Most of the time they end up shooting low 40s for 9 holes in competition. Trying to get one of them to read LSW

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by Lihu
forgot quotes

[JonMA1]

I din't get through the entire article but thought it was a well-written piece.

There are thousands of minor league baseball players who have similar stories. Some are good enough to stick with it a long time and never make any real money. Others give it a go, realize the difficulty, and get out while they're young.

The article reminded me of Ben Hogan's story and how he talked about giving up on a tour career and getting a "real" job - just before winning his first tournament.

[nevets88]

2 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I din't get through the entire article but thought it was a well-written piece.

There are thousands of minor league baseball players who have similar stories. Some are good enough to stick with it a long time and never make any real money. Others give it a go, realize the difficulty, and get out while they're young.

The article reminded me of Ben Hogan's story and how he talked about giving up on a tour career and getting a "real" job - just before winning his first tournament.

Saw from @Valleygolfer's post he went to Williams (assuming Williams College) and thought, ah, that's probably why it was well written. Multi talented guy, I'm sure will find his niche.

[MuniGrit]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

I think you and I would disagree on our assessments of those players. It's highly unlikely IMO to be true, let alone that you know "a lot" of such players.

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

Plus the gap between scratch and PGA tour level is YUGE too! My experience in guys who say they are scratch is when I play with them they are more likely to shoot in the 80s and even or better.

Edited March 25, 2017 by MuniGrit

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Yeah, I suppose the reason why they're shooting mid-80s might make a dramatic difference as well, and "a lot" is like 2 players out of the hundreds I know.

They have very solid swings, but can't seem to score.

That's the part I doubt, @Lihu.

They probably have good rhythm, which is tricking you, but I don't think I would look at their swings in my camera and call them "solid."

[jsgolfer]

This reminds me of a guy I caddied for in the Greater Bangor Open when I was in High School.  his name was Jeff Lewis, I doubt he is still playing but at some point he was referred to as the golf's Crash Davis  He had one of the weirdest swings I had ever seen as a kid, but man could he play. And apparently has had lots of wins.  He made it to the tour for 2 years. He's won over 50 times on the mini-tours, but never made it big.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-10-23/sports/9410230322_1_tour-tracy-superstar

https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-8343728.html

 

[Buckeyebowman]

13 hours ago, krupa said:

Here's the Radio Lab segment about self-deception:

http://www.radiolab.org/story/91618-lying-to-ourselves/

 

Well, it wasn't self-deception that Kottke (or Jung) was necessarily talking about. It was about deceiving others! I'm going to have to search around. I don't know if I can hone it down to that one particular point, but I know that stuff is on YouTube somewhere!

[Lihu]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

That's the part I doubt, @Lihu.

They probably have good rhythm, which is tricking you, but I don't think I would look at their swings in my camera and call them "solid."

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you could see their swing flaws, and, now, I'd guess they have them based upon what you are saying to me.

[Pretzel]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:28 PM, iacas said:

The gap between scratch and "in the mid-80s" is HUGE.

The funny thing is, while this statement is true, what most people don't realize is that the gap between a touring professional and a scratch golfer is even larger in terms of how hard it is to go from one to the other. 

Sure, they may only be 5 strokes apart instead of 15 strokes, but those 5 strokes are the final refinements to your game that you can make. It's that lipped out putt on 6, the slightly heavy wedge on 10, and the mediocre approach shots on 2, 8, and 15. You're no longer fixing a driver sliced OB or a chili-dipped chip, you're going from good to great.