Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA

[JetFan1983]

3 hours ago, RH31 said:

>Please indulge stupid old me and tell me again: what is the purpose, or what is to be gained, by >having the name of the person who spotted an infraction? What if there are ten people who spot >the infraction?

A. To determine if there was motive for delay in reporting the incident or

B. To determine if "someone close to the tournament" should've or could've handled the matter faster.

C. To solve my curiosity in the matter

I know, I know, Lexi still would've gotten the 4 shot penalty.....just maybe not mid round

You forgot option D, which is the route you really want to go: To have the social media trolls descend upon the caller with an endless stream of harassment and death threats. You want that person to be publicly shamed. You want to see a social media lynch mob exact your depraved version of justice. 

Just admit it. That's what you want and what you think they deserve. 

Pretty disgusting.

[Phil McGleno]

 

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

 

[RH31]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

 If Lexi didn't gain any advantage by marking and replacing the ball in a quite clearly different spot, then why on earth did she do it? She clearly decided to mark it for a reason. I don't know what that reason was and I'm not going to say that she cheated because I have no clue what was going through her mind, but it does make me wonder why she did it.

---

That sums up a lot of how I feel about all of this.

She marked her ball to line up a spot on it with her putter at address. A putting routine some players use. Pretty simple explanation unless you're digging for something that's not there.

14 hours ago, JetFan1983 said:

You forgot option D, which is the route you really want to go: To have the social media trolls descend upon the caller with an endless stream of harassment and death threats. You want that person to be publicly shamed. You want to see a social media lynch mob exact your depraved version of justice. 

Just admit it. That's what you want and what you think they deserve. 

Pretty disgusting.

Death threats?? Overreact much?

I really don't care one way or another about the person or what you think of my stance.

FWIW, I think all the clamoring to call Lexi a cheater is "pretty disgusting".

 

[iacas]

32 minutes ago, RH31 said:

She marked her ball to line up a spot on it with her putter at address. A putting routine some players use. Pretty simple explanation unless you're digging for something that's not there.

I'm not digging at all. It's not my quote. My quoted text above referred to the rules aspects in that quote.

33 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Death threats?? Overreact much?

No. He's really not. Look at the history. That Cubs fan who touched the foul ball… etc.

34 minutes ago, RH31 said:

I really don't care one way or another about the person or what you think of my stance.

FWIW, I think all the clamoring to call Lexi a cheater is "pretty disgusting".

If you don't care about the person then why do you need a name? You can't list reasons then say you don't care.

And there's not much clamoring. You can list the people here saying it on one hand. Yet the idea has some merit. She did move the ball a significant amount in a very short period of time.

[RH31]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not digging at all. It's not my quote. My quoted text above referred to the rules aspects in that quote.

No. He's really not. Look at the history. That Cubs fan who touched the foul ball… etc.

If you don't care about the person then why do you need a name? You can't list reasons then say you don't care.

And there's not much clamoring. You can list the people here saying it on one hand. Yet the idea has some merit. She did move the ball a significant amount in a very short period of time.

Didn't mean to insinuate you were digging, the person in the article is who I was referring to.

So, you agree with me then that she picked her ball up to rotate her mark?

The Cubs thing was a teams fanbase loss after decades of losing. Lexi is an individual playing the game for herself. Big difference.

I care about the issue, but I have no axe to grind with the person one way or another.

She paid her penalty for the infraction, golf has nothing to gain by her being labeled a cheater.

 

[Yukari]

9 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

 

Wow!  I can't believe she did it again.  I am beginning to think she must not realize she is moving her ball or she is completely clueless.

2 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Didn't mean to insinuate you were digging, the person in the article is who I was referring to.

So, you agree with me then that she picked her ball up to rotate her mark?

The Cubs thing was a teams fanbase loss after decades of losing. Lexi is an individual playing the game for herself. Big difference.

I care about the issue, but I have no axe to grind with the person one way or another.

She paid her penalty for the infraction, golf has nothing to gain by her being labeled a cheater.

 

IIRC, she did that AFTER she initially marked the ball, moved it, then picked it up again and then rotated the ball to align the mark.

[BallStriker]

1 hour ago, Yukari said:

Wow!  I can't believe she did it again.  I am beginning to think she must not realize she is moving her ball or she is completely clueless.

This is not really "again"....the posted footage is clearly from a past tournament prior to ANA.....but I agree, she is either clueless or feels that the slight movement of her ball is not material from a rules stanpoint

[iacas]

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

So, you agree with me then that she picked her ball up to rotate her mark?

Yeah. But the ball was in her hand for a second and she could have easily replaced it at the same point on the coin. She's said she uses a dot to focus on and was putting that on top of the ball. But I can rotate the ball and put it back on the same spot (within a very small area, not 0.7"+).

I can understand why some feel she cheated (intentionally).

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

The Cubs thing was a teams fanbase loss after decades of losing. Lexi is an individual playing the game for herself. Big difference.

If you don't think that person would have a mob after them, you're incredibly ignorant to the ways of the world. Look at the names that person has been called just here on this thread.

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

I care about the issue, but I have no axe to grind with the person one way or another.

The truth is there's no valid reason to know the identity of the person. None. They're not the perpetrator or the rules violator.

1 hour ago, RH31 said:

She paid her penalty for the infraction, golf has nothing to gain by her being labeled a cheater.

And yet if she was a cheater (I don't think she was, but let's say she has that reputation), it's deserved. If in the future there continue to be issues like this, no, it won't be "good for golf" but it will become an accurate representation of who she is as a golfer. A cheater.

Again I don't think she is, but the above is hypothetical. We can't avoid labels just because they don't "benefit the game" - if they're accurate. Ben Crane is known as a slow player, and that doesn't benefit the game, but it at least shames him a little bit and it's appropriate, IMO. Dustin Johnson was known for smoking pot and doing other drugs. Not good for the game, but an accurate story and reputation.

1 hour ago, Yukari said:

Wow!  I can't believe she did it again.  I am beginning to think she must not realize she is moving her ball or she is completely clueless.

Yeah, like @BallStriker said, that's a previous occurrence. But it indicates a habit of not paying much attention to her marking and replacing that she should curtail…

[RH31]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah. But the ball was in her hand for a second and she could have easily replaced it at the same point on the coin. She's said she uses a dot to focus on and was putting that on top of the ball. But I can rotate the ball and put it back on the same spot (within a very small area, not 0.7"+).

I agree she could've and should've put the ball back in the same spot.

3 hours ago, iacas said:

I can understand why some feel she cheated (intentionally).

I could too if there was any visible reason at all to move it over. Spike mark, ball mark, shadow, fly anything...

3 hours ago, iacas said:

If you don't think that person would have a mob after them, you're incredibly ignorant to the ways of the world. Look at the names that person has been called just here on this thread.

The truth is there's no valid reason to know the identity of the person. None. They're not the perpetrator or the rules violator.

And yet if she was a cheater (I don't think she was, but let's say she has that reputation), it's deserved. If in the future there continue to be issues like this, no, it won't be "good for golf" but it will become an accurate representation of who she is as a golfer. A cheater.

Agreed. She needs to get any sloppiness squared away or she's just asking for it.

 

[iacas]

 

[sac1]

Telling vision above.  

It looks like this mark it from the side and then place the ball back in front of the marker directly in line with the hole happens regardless of whether she replaces it from the side or stands behind it.  

There was no excuse to mark it from the side either here or in the controversy incident(Pettersen's putt was about the same length as Lexi's ......think about it), and in the vid above, we see her go and crouch down directly behind the putt.....obviously not on someone's line ^ either!

It would be interesting to see more vision of her marking the ball on different occasions, for those that argue a 1/4 -1/2in movement to the side is not going to be getting an advantage......think further about the geometry of marking it to the side and then putting the ball back directly in line with the marker and hole.  Its going to get the ball closer to the hole every time.  For example if the ball is marked completely to the side and then put in line with the hole and the marker its going to be 0.8in(half a ball closer to the hole).  At 45 deg its going to be ~0.3 in closer.  difference between a lip out and a ball that hits the bottom of the cup is a lot less than 0.3in!!

If on average she is marking 0.3in closer to the hole  at ~29? puts per round x 4 x tournaments per year.....how much advantage is she getting on the rest of the field here.

Who was the caller(totally irrelevant - its not like they were able to change/fabricate what was on the video), was perhaps a fellow competitor that had noticed this "habit" of gaining an advantage on the field and who knows maybe even had told Lexi to stop doing it and Lexi took no notice.  Now there's something to add to the mix......Lexi might know who it is, but can't go to the press with it, can she.

Edited April 29, 2017 by sac1

[Nutsmacker]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Yeah. But the ball was in her hand for a second and she could have easily replaced it at the same point on the coin. She's said she uses a dot to focus on and was putting that on top of the ball. But I can rotate the ball and put it back on the same spot (within a very small area, not 0.7"+).

I can understand why some feel she cheated (intentionally).

If you don't think that person would have a mob after them, you're incredibly ignorant to the ways of the world. Look at the names that person has been called just here on this thread.

The truth is there's no valid reason to know the identity of the person. None. They're not the perpetrator or the rules violator.

And yet if she was a cheater (I don't think she was, but let's say she has that reputation), it's deserved. If in the future there continue to be issues like this, no, it won't be "good for golf" but it will become an accurate representation of who she is as a golfer. A cheater.

Again I don't think she is, but the above is hypothetical. We can't avoid labels just because they don't "benefit the game" - if they're accurate. Ben Crane is known as a slow player, and that doesn't benefit the game, but it at least shames him a little bit and it's appropriate, IMO. Dustin Johnson was known for smoking pot and doing other drugs. Not good for the game, but an accurate story and reputation.

Yeah, like @BallStriker said, that's a previous occurrence. But it indicates a habit of not paying much attention to her marking and replacing that she should curtail…

You see, personally I consider what she is doing as cheating.  Yea, sure you might not label her as a cheat because its minor in the grand scheme of things and she has rationalized it in her head that it is OK.  However, it is improving the situation and as the other video suggests;  she does this fairly regularly.  So, someone whom is regularly breaking the rules to improve their lie and angle(albeit extremely minor) is a cheat.  No way to beat around the bush...either she is or she is not and from the facts I have seen...I would say that she is.  Why can't she just play by the rules?  really, like WTF?!

[Hardspoon]

1 hour ago, Nutsmacker said:

You see, personally I consider what she is doing as cheating.  Yea, sure you might not label her as a cheat because its minor in the grand scheme of things and she has rationalized it in her head that it is OK.  However, it is improving the situation and as the other video suggests;  she does this fairly regularly.  So, someone whom is regularly breaking the rules to improve their lie and angle(albeit extremely minor) is a cheat.  No way to beat around the bush...either she is or she is not and from the facts I have seen...I would say that she is.  Why can't she just play by the rules?  really, like WTF?!

FWIW, I think the fact that it's happened before probably means she wasn't intentionally cheating; she's just careless.

I have no problem with the Rules treating both of those equally.

[Nutsmacker]

1 minute ago, Hardspoon said:

FWIW, I think the fact that it's happened before probably means she wasn't intentionally cheating; she's just careless.

I have no problem with the Rules treating both of those equally.

But careless?  You mean carelessly not thinking about the rules because she rationalized in her head that they don't mean much.  That is still cheating....

[Hardspoon]

19 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

But careless?  You mean carelessly not thinking about the rules because she rationalized in her head that they don't mean much.  That is still cheating....

Sure. That's my point - you call it "cheating", I (probably) wouldn't, but it gains her the same advantage so it's punished the same. And that's all that matters.

[sac1]

26 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

FWIW, I think the fact that it's happened before probably means she wasn't intentionally cheating; she's just careless.

 

How could you not know you were putting the ball closer to the hole every time? I'd say she got used to taking what she thought was an unnoticeable  advantage, yeh like those that push their marker right up under the ball when they mark it and when they put it down again the marker is a gap of grass between the marker and the ball.

Edited April 30, 2017 by sac1

[iacas]

Just now, Hardspoon said:

Sure. That's my point - you call it "cheating", I (probably) wouldn't, but it gains her the same advantage so it's punished the same. And that's all that matters.

Well… if they thought it was intentional she could have been DQed.