Steve Elkington/Rory McIlroy Twitter Fight

[JetFan1983]

@skydog and @zipazoid, I'm surprised you guys think Rory is struggling so much. He missed a month after the Masters due to a rib issue, came back too soon, then missed another month after the Players. This was his first start, and he's still not all the way back yet.

Plus, look at his numbers heading into this week. These aren't the stats of someone who is struggling:

I realize the strokes gained stuff is a smallish sample, but to me it looks like he's actually going off. He also finished 2nd place in his lone Euro Tour start this year.

He finished 2016 fourth in total strokes gained, won twice on the PGA Tour (including the Fed-Ex Cup), and once on the Euro Tour. Hell, this was the totality of his Euro Tour Results Log last year:

Rory is ridiculous. It is just very, very hard to win a major. 

So I disagree with Elk big time on this one. In fact, looking at his results, Elk's opinion is kind of absurd. If Rory needs anything right now, it's reps. And let's not forget he's dealing with new clubs and a new ball besides the injury.

The guy goes 78-71 MC in a US Open coming off a layoff, and suddenly he's never winning another major? I mean, you might be right, but if he doesn't, it will be for reasons you did not argue. 

Anyway, I agree it's opinion and fun to debate. We can at least also agree that Elk is a jackass. I mean, he tweeted this the other day:

 

 Rory's no.2 in the world with only two starts since the Masters. That's pretty darn impressive IMO.  

Edit: I know the strokes gained numbers are only over twelve calculated rounds, but if he qualified for the rankings on this stat, he'd be no.2 on tour, just 0.08 strokes behind Dustin. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by JetFan1983

[zipazoid]

@JetFan1983 - Struggling, relatively speaking. Meaning in comparison to how dominant he looked a couple years back. I'm sure he will be fine..don't read too much into my observation - it was just to make a point of how hard it is to maintain dominance. 

[colin007]

Struggling? Not in my book...

 

[JetFan1983]

2 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

@JetFan1983 - Struggling, relatively speaking. Meaning in comparison to how dominant he looked a couple years back. I'm sure he will be fine..don't read too much into my observation - it was just to make a point of how hard it is to maintain dominance. 

No worries, Zip. There's no question that he was on an unstoppable run in the summer of 2014. That was really fun to watch.

If he can stay off the trainer's table, I think he's got a great shot at picking off the British or PGA later this year. When he's on his game, there aren't many in the world who can hang with him. 

[MuniGrit]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Rory (likely) works harder at his game than Elkington ever did at his. He has plenty of drive. I disagree with Elkington.

Is there any proof to this? How do you know how hard Elk worked on his game?  I can tell you this, the heavy weight room work Rory has done has done more negative on his game than positive. Interesting that he has had all these injuries since.

Edited June 18, 2017 by MuniGrit

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Is there any proof to this? How do you know how hard Elk worked on his game?

I've talked with players who played back then. They didn't spend nearly the time the modern player spends working on their game.

2 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I can tell you this, the heavy weight room work Rory has done has done more negative on his game than positive.

You can't. That's your opinion. I disagree. So does Rory. So do the people he's trusted to help him.

2 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Interesting that he has had all these injuries since.

He had a bad back years ago. That's why he's DONE the workouts he's done - to strengthen and stabilize the muscles around that.

Plus, he could have been forced into retirement by now from injury without the workout routines he's done. Or he could be injury free. Neither of us know. So please be careful with "I can tell you this" type of statements. You cannot. Nor can I. Nor can he.

[MuniGrit]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

I've talked with players who played back then. They didn't spend nearly the time the modern player spends working on their game.

You can't. That's your opinion. I disagree. So does Rory. So do the people he's trusted to help him.

He had a bad back years ago. That's why he's DONE the workouts he's done - to strengthen and stabilize the muscles around that.

Plus, he could have been forced into retirement by now from injury without the workout routines he's done. Or he could be injury free. Neither of us know. So please be careful with "I can tell you this" type of statements. You cannot. Nor can I. Nor can he.

Funny how you act like your opinion and hand me down info is fact but if someone else does the same thing you are all over them. You have no clue how much Elk worked on his game. I bet if you tweeted him he would tell you though. Sorry if you have back problems, doing heavy squats and deadlifts is a great way to make it worse. What would you expect Rory and his trainers to say about it? Of course they are going to say it is the right thing to do.

Edited June 18, 2017 by MuniGrit

[saevel25]

Just now, MuniGrit said:

Funny how you act like your opinion and hand me down info is fact but if someone else does the same thing you are all over them. 

You didn't have any information. 

Just now, MuniGrit said:

Sorry if you have back problems, doing heavy squats and deadlifts is a great way to make it worse. 

Actually that is false. Properly done squats and deadlifts strengthen the back and muscles that when weaken can cause back pain. 

2 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

What would you expect Rory and his trainers to say about it? Of course they are going to say it is the right thing to do.

Let me ask this, what is your pedigree on training athletes? Should we take your statements over those who train athletes for a living? 

[Shindig]

19 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Sorry if you have back problems, doing heavy squats and deadlifts is a great way to make it worse. 

Do you have a credible source on this?  A few years ago when I had a back and knee problem, my doctor encouraged me to do squats and deadlifts.  

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Funny how you act like your opinion and hand me down info is fact but if someone else does the same thing you are all over them.

I've seen Rickie working on his game. It's first-hand knowledge.

As for how much other people worked on their game in the 80s and 90s, that's first-hand knowledge to them. I happen to believe them. I don't think they're lying. I'm comfortable saying I "know" how much time player spent working on their games back then. Not Elk specifically, of course.

And, sorry, but what I've said and what you've said aren't the same. You said things as if they were facts when they're just your opinions in a situation where all the people who know better than you clearly disagree - Rory, his trainers, his medical staff, etc. I've said what I've witnessed directly or what other people who were there witnessed directly. Very, very different things.

30 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

 I bet if you tweeted him he would tell you though.

Why would I want to talk with Elk?

30 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Sorry if you have back problems, doing heavy squats and deadlifts is a great way to make it worse.

Dude, that's just a stupid thing to say. What are your qualifications? What do you know about Rory's injury history, his workouts, etc.? 

30 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

What would you expect Rory and his trainers to say about it? Of course they are going to say it is the right thing to do.

They know more than you do. Another thing on which I'd wager.

---

At the end of the day… all I'm saying is that, based on what I've seen and heard, Rory works harder and demonstrates more "drive" than the pros of Elk's era. Almost nothing speaks otherwise.

The idea that because there's so much more money in the game is not even direct evidence of any increased apathy; it requires mind-reading based on assumptions about how money affects an individual.

[nevets88]

Twitter has been getting more toxic lately, based on the anecdotal opinions of regular users. Maybe this is a result of a rising tide (or rather lowering) that lifts (sinks) all boats thing, people feel emboldened to troll more.

For the most part, the old if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all would serve the general conversation well.

[Shindig]

9 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Twitter has been getting more toxic lately, based on the anecdotal opinions of regular users. Maybe this is a result of a rising tide (or rather lowering) that lifts (sinks) all boats thing, people feel emboldened to troll more.

For the most part, the old if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all would serve the general conversation well.

Lately?  Most places on the internet where you can post anonymously, especially if you can use it to speak to someone who you know is on the other line, have this problem.

This is part of why I think we were asked to put our first names in the signature lines here;  it reduces that problem.  Although this has generally been a civil place most of the time I've been here anyway. 

[skydog]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm not conflating the two. Are you? Who is?

Pretty sure comparing Rory's practicing/training to Elk's is conflating...

 

19 hours ago, iacas said:

Rory (likely) works harder at his game than Elkington ever did at his.

Elk's own training regiment 20 years ago is irrelevant....it may be relevant to assess how big of a d bag Elk is in making the comments, but not to whether or not he may be right about Rory.

Either way, I don't really care. Like I said, I don't know all/any of the reasons Rory's game is in decline but I think it is and I don't think it reverses. Guys like Koepka and Rahm are already better than Rory  and only getting better and Rory is going the other direction.

[nevets88]

File under get off my lawn and FWP.

[MuniGrit]

18 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You didn't have any information. 

Actually that is false. Properly done squats and deadlifts strengthen the back and muscles that when weaken can cause back pain. 

Let me ask this, what is your pedigree on training athletes? Should we take your statements over those who train athletes for a living? 

I replied a longer post yesterday but I don't know where it went. In theory, yes squats and deadlifts strengthen back if done PROPERLY.  Spend any time talking with people who live at gyms and know how to do them and you can/will eventually get hurt from even just one rep when your technique gets sloppy because you are tired. When you lift heavy like Rory does, you have to even be more conscious of technique which he is a lot better than most because he will have a trainer helping him most of the time.

Would you really expect Rory or his trainers to not defend what they are doing? It is just like when people questioned Tigers swing changes with Foley they defended until the bitter end until Foley was fired. There should be a bunch of golfers doing heavy lifts like Rory if it is so good for golf. I personally would take to the Koepka/DJ routine of lighter weights and doing more plyo's.

18 hours ago, Shindig said:

Do you have a credible source on this?  A few years ago when I had a back and knee problem, my doctor encouraged me to do squats and deadlifts.  

I'm sure your doctor did encourage those exercises. I highly doubt he said to go real heavy weight though like Rory.

[Shindig]

19 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I'm sure your doctor did encourage those exercises. I highly doubt he said to go real heavy weight though like Rory.

So your answer is "no, I don't have a credible source for my wild claims."

If I'm wrong, please provide a credible source for your claims about Rory, his fitness, and the link between heavy lifting and worsening back problems. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, skydog said:

Pretty sure comparing Rory's practicing/training to Elk's is conflating...

No. You accused me of mixing up Elk's personality with what he said. I'm not doing so.

1 hour ago, skydog said:

Elk's own training regiment 20 years ago is irrelevant....it may be relevant to assess how big of a d bag Elk is in making the comments, but not to whether or not he may be right about Rory.

I disagree that it's irrelevant. How hard did Elk work at his golf? How much drive did he display?

1 hour ago, skydog said:

Either way, I don't really care. Like I said, I don't know all/any of the reasons Rory's game is in decline but I think it is and I don't think it reverses. Guys like Koepka and Rahm are already better than Rory  and only getting better and Rory is going the other direction.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. Rahm may be a flash in the pan. Sergio only just won his first major. Rory could vanish or win five more. We'll see.

Kinda beside the point, though. Rory was accused of lacking drive due to money. I see little to no proof of that, and thus disagree with Elk.

8 minutes ago, Shindig said:

So your answer is "no, I don't have a credible source for my wild claims."

If I'm wrong, please provide a credible source for your claims about Rory, his fitness, and the link between heavy lifting and worsening back problems. 

Nah, he won't.

And it's not really the topic here anyway, so it's fine… There are other topics here that are better suited for that discussion, @MuniGrit.

[MuniGrit]

16 minutes ago, Shindig said:

So your answer is "no, I don't have a credible source for my wild claims."

If I'm wrong, please provide a credible source for your claims about Rory, his fitness, and the link between heavy lifting and worsening back problems. 

You have the internet and google back pain with the exercises that he is doing. I've already told you in theory it should help your problems but when executed you will eventually screw up and hurt your back. I'm not saying it is the only reason for his back problems, but his injuries have been more consistent since his workouts have been made known.

Anyways you have to be an expert on a subject to make your opinion valid. Pretty funny this am on the Golf Channel they were talking about exactly what Elk was saying that Mcilroy is bored. I think his drive isn't what it was which is fine. I can't say I blame him he has other stuff in his life and is set for life. The way he putts he isn't going to win many more majors anyways. Who knows what drives Rory but he does seem to worry too much about what is said in the media and social media.