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Still searching for the Holy Grail


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I'm 58, been playing since I was 38. Like a lot of us, I was a good weekend athlete, played all the usual sports in my youth. Golf was just the next one in line as I got too old for city league basketball, softball and flag football. Took five years for me to realize this ain't like the other sports. I wasn't used being the least talented in any group, now it was the norm. I'm over it now, but it was beyond frustrating in the early years. I had one major flaw I could not shake and still can't to this day. After a year or so I got past the goal of breaking 100, then a couple more years breaking 90. Now I'm the typical 13-15 handicap. For the last ten years I've spent more time on YouTube, lessons with instructors and just experimenting on my own to rid myself of the horrible affliction of "coming over the top" than you can imagine. For those not cursed with this disorder, you can't appreciate a well struck ball flying straight as an arrow landing flag high but twenty yards left. I know all the so called "fixes" because I have tried them all. Some more than others. I have them written down and came up with twelve coming from respected instructors. At what point do you just say screw it, that is just the way it is. My current fix that has served me the best is leading my downswing with a very strong left side (knee/hip) lateral move. Cures it 37% of the time. Am I really destined to live with this for the remaining time I have left to play?

 

Fixes that did not work or worked very little:

1) Reverse 8 - Jim Furyk

2) Hit ball to right field

3) Swing to spot in front/right of ball

4) Hit back/inside of ball

5) Point handle to right field on downswing

6) Hit a draw - which I cannot do

7) Keep wrist flat

8) Pause at the top, let club head drop

9) Right elbow tuck

10) Just swing to the target

11) Play ball further back in stance

12) Lead downswing with strong lateral knee/hip - current partial cure.

 

Any advice or sympathy appreciated.

 

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11 minutes ago, breeves said:

Any advice or sympathy appreciated.

Start a my swing thread here, 

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

 

Edited by saevel25
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Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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Let it go, my friend...

But you've come to the right place. The rest of us are golf obsessed wackos much like yourself. 

So you're 58, and while that no doubt presents some obvious barriers to becoming a + handicap, you can certainly still play beyond the level of a 13.0. One thing I would suggest is realizing that you haven't actually "tried everything" yet. If you had, you'd have found your priority piece. 

A priority piece is what a golfer should be working on. It's their no.1 swing flaw, and it takes a fairly knowledgeable mind to be able to diagnose and explain. But once you know what that is, your range work will actually become productive, and you won't be bouncing from one bad idea to the next. You may have already realized this, but the vast majority of golf instructors out there are bad at their job, and the only thing they're good at doing is giving their students the wrong diagnosis. This leads you to working on stuff you shouldn't be working on. Frustration ensues. 

It sounds like you're simply a golfer who doesn't know what his priority piece is.

Like @saevel25 said, try starting a swing thread. And hey, maybe even take part in other threads as well. It'll give the instructors here more incentive to help you out haha :-D

So while we might not find the holy grail when we play this game, finding our priority piece can more or less be that "grail moment." You can find it with a good instructor, thru the use of video, launch monitors like Trackman, or other pieces of technology like Boditrak or SAM Puttlab. 

Keep learning. You haven't tried everything yet, even though it might feel that way. If you find a good instructor, you'll find your priority piece, and from there you can really understand the difference between a good and bad teacher. And over time -- perhaps sooner than you think -- you will have a more functional golf swing. And that's fun!

Constantine

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Couple of ideas…

  • Sign up for evolvr.com
  • Find a good local instructor.

Emphasis in the second is on "good." There are not that many.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Hello Breeves

I can feel your pain!!  I started playing this crazy game when I was 7 years old, then with marriage, raising an army of kids plus a couple major operations and bam 12 or 14 years went by without playing.  When I was younger I played competitive golf or so I thought (:  Yet my entire life I hit a fade and that could grow into a slice.  I tried everything to stop it to just learning to play the thing.  I worked on fixing outside in and grip changes yet those fixes never took. When I started playing again 3 three years ago that fade was really bothering me.  i watched youtube videos and found a one guy that actually gave good lessons that were repeatable.  But there were two things that actually worked for me and they really have made a difference!  For Christmas I got myself two gifts, a Skilz goldflex and a Izzo smooth swing.  I worked myself up slowly over the winter starting to swing 10 times a day to eventually 60 swings in the morning and 60 swings in the evening. I am now hitting Drives further then ever, straighter then ever and even with a nice soft draw.  After watching a fade all my life hitting a draw is just a thing of beauty.  My current Driver was my father's Driver a King Cobra Speed LD F/10.5 with a Tour AD YS shaft.  Best i can tell my Dad got this Driver in 2006 and on my last round i was actually long by 10 yards on a 298 yard par 4!  While this combo may not work for you it has been the best training swing aids i have ever tried.  To further make my point, once the golf season started i put the Gold Flex and Smooth Swinger on the back table and stopped using them, my game sunk like a rock.  When it finally dawned me after a month of frustrating golf this summer that i had stopped using this combo i went right back to it and my game came back immediately. 

this is my training routine

Stretch my hamstrings and back, stretch my neck

15 swings as if i were hitting my driver

Do the stretching

15 swings as if i were hitting irons (i choke way down on the Goldflex)

Do the stretching

15 Driver swings

Do the stretching

15 iron swings (choking way down)

do more stretching

then repeat in the evening.  But i warn you if you do this start out with fewer swings and build up over time or you can hurt yourself! 

I am 54 years old and i have NEVER in my life hit a golf ball this far and so accurate!

For the record - i have been professionally fit for my putter and irons and just got fit for a new driver that should be in any day. 

i wish you luck and if you try this i hope it works for you! 

 

 

- Dean

Driver: PXG GEN3 Proto X Mitsubishi Tensei CK Pro Orange
Fairway wood: 5 Wood PXG 0341 GEN2 hzrdus smoke yellow

2 Iron PXG XP Evenflow Blue

3 Utility Iron Srixon 3 20*
Irons:  5 thru PW PXG GEN3 XP Steelfiber 95 -  Wedges: Mizuno T7 48, 52, 56 and 60 Recoil 110 shafts 6
Putter: In search of the Holy Grail Ball: Snell MTBx

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19 hours ago, breeves said:

I'm 58, been playing since I was 38. Like a lot of us, I was a good weekend athlete, played all the usual sports in my youth. Golf was just the next one in line as I got too old for city league basketball, softball and flag football. Took five years for me to realize this ain't like the other sports. I wasn't used being the least talented in any group, now it was the norm. I'm over it now, but it was beyond frustrating in the early years. I had one major flaw I could not shake and still can't to this day. After a year or so I got past the goal of breaking 100, then a couple more years breaking 90. Now I'm the typical 13-15 handicap. For the last ten years I've spent more time on YouTube, lessons with instructors and just experimenting on my own to rid myself of the horrible affliction of "coming over the top" than you can imagine. For those not cursed with this disorder, you can't appreciate a well struck ball flying straight as an arrow landing flag high but twenty yards left. I know all the so called "fixes" because I have tried them all. Some more than others. I have them written down and came up with twelve coming from respected instructors. At what point do you just say screw it, that is just the way it is. My current fix that has served me the best is leading my downswing with a very strong left side (knee/hip) lateral move. Cures it 37% of the time. Am I really destined to live with this for the remaining time I have left to play?

 

Fixes that did not work or worked very little:

1) Reverse 8 - Jim Furyk

2) Hit ball to right field

3) Swing to spot in front/right of ball

4) Hit back/inside of ball

5) Point handle to right field on downswing

6) Hit a draw - which I cannot do

7) Keep wrist flat

8) Pause at the top, let club head drop

9) Right elbow tuck

10) Just swing to the target

11) Play ball further back in stance

12) Lead downswing with strong lateral knee/hip - current partial cure.

 

Any advice or sympathy appreciated.

 

I feel as if I am reading something I would have written about six weeks ago. I was in the same place and started a swing thread. The wonderful folks on TST identified my priority items and I am slowly showing signs of improvement. My over the top is gone and now I am just dealing with consistency issues. At some point I'm sure it will be time to move on to some other flaws in my swing, but this is not an overnight fix. 

It took years to create our bad swings so you can't expect a one line catch phrase to solve it overnight. 

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18 hours ago, iacas said:

Emphasis in the second is on "good." There are not that many.

I'm 71. I have found that good technical instructors who are willing to work creatively with the older golfer's limitations are rare. But I'm sure they are out there. An older friend goes to a great lady instructor who works with 1st Tee kids. Her patience and willingness to go beyond the technical impresses.

For myself, studying the mental and strategic thinking aspects have become very important. There are lots written on the subjects. For example, having consistently scored in the 80's in the past, it occurred to me that I can do that.This simple belief has boosted confidence, has increased my focus, and has led to recent low 90's scoring. Can the 80's be far behind? -Marv

DRIVER: Cleveland 588 Altitude ( Matrix Radix Sv Graphite, A) IRONS: Mizuno JPX-800 HD Irons & 3,4,5 JPX Fli-Hi (Grafalloy Prolaunch Blue Graphite, R); WEDGES: (Carried as needed) Artisan Golf 46, 50, 53, 56 low bounce, 56 high bounce; PUTTER: Mizuno TP Mills 9

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@breeves You're certainly not alone. Some really good responses here. I'm confident you will find excellent instruction here. I feel your pain. I wasted time and money on a popular YouTube instructor whom I saw in person for a lesson. His priority piece for me was telling me after 30yrs of golf and managing an 8hcp that I should switch to playing right handed. Yeah, ok.

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

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I'm 59 and this year I'm playing the best golf I've played in many years.  I quit trying to fix my swing flaws and basically started from scratch to build a solid, repeatable swing.  Instead of trying to fix my over the top move, I fixed my setup and swing so I didn't get in position to come over the top.  

 

What worked for me?  Shawn Clement.  I watched his Youtube video "Golfers over 40 watch this."  His approach clicked with me.  He relates the golf swing to other sports and movements that I had done in the past.  Hitting a golf shot is like throwing a ball, skipping a stone, etc.  

 

I then started doing the drills he recommends:  the kettlebell drill, the feet together drill, the one leg drill and the walking drill.  I still do these every time I go to the range and before each round.   

 

I then found his videos on "Hitting Golf Ball is Not Your Job."  I found it liberating.  Focus on the target, not the ball.  Swing to the target, the ball gets in the way.  No more over the top because I'm not ball focused.  Check out "Dude! Stop over the Top." 

 

I finally joined his premium channel on Youtube for more a more organized approach to the game.  But, there is plenty of free content of his on Youtube channel.  It's just harder to organize into a helpful order.  Here is a link to a grouping of his drills:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXReWUx4Cg&list=PL1J-IG9ZQMY419ZC__Q4Z-qfAZpBYxInS&index=3  

 

It worked for me.  It may work for you.  I'm having a lot more fun playing, a major part it because I don't try to change my swing on the course.  I play golf instead of golf swing.  

 

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Just back from two full buckets at the range. I decided to pick back up on an overall swing philosophy I have tried before but did not give it a true test. I'm sure some of you have or have seen Shawn Clement's DVD's. I took them out recently as I was searching for anything to shake things up to purge the over the top demon that possesses me. Last looked at them six or seven years ago. I am a fast paced person which ain't so good for my game (think quick from the top). I really like the idea of a more gravity based swing, keeps my rhythm much smoother. I tried beginning the take away with my shoulders/chest and once I hit the top, pausing for the momentum shift and letting the left side lead the charge on the down swing. My practice swings felt great, real swing not so much. I stood there thinking, "what is the difference between my practice swing and my real swing"?. Compared for a while and finally noticed as soon as I addressed the ball my grip got a bit more tight. Not a lot but I could feel my forearm muscles tense just a bit, they didn't in my practice swing. So for a bucket and a half I hit with a very relaxed grip and gravity swing. As soon as I let my arms dictate any part of the downswing, it was a bad outcome. Got to say it felt very good. Loved the ball flight and a bonus is my body felt like I hit maybe a half bucket. I'm thinking Tom Watson when I try to get a visual of a pro that has that type swing. Surely this swing thought number 838 with be the major change I need to drop a few strokes!

That's crazy alfriday, we posted about the same time about the instructor!

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If it helps at all, I have reduced my slices to a fairly small proportion of my shots (probably less than 15% all out weak slices, although I do fade a few) having sliced for years. But it's still a natural tendency and I have to remember not to slice it. 

Didn't see you mention moving the right foot back (and pointed out) which helped for me  - allowed me to get the right hip rotation and focus on rotation instead of lateral movement. Slowing things down as much as possible while I worked on it also helped. 

But if you can't fix your swing, use equipment that makes it manageable - If I try not to slice a hybrid, it will predictably go left. 

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On 7/15/2017 at 2:12 PM, breeves said:

I'm 58, been playing since I was 38. Like a lot of us, I was a good weekend athlete, played all the usual sports in my youth. Golf was just the next one in line as I got too old for city league basketball, softball and flag football. Took five years for me to realize this ain't like the other sports. I wasn't used being the least talented in any group, now it was the norm. I'm over it now, but it was beyond frustrating in the early years. I had one major flaw I could not shake and still can't to this day. After a year or so I got past the goal of breaking 100, then a couple more years breaking 90. Now I'm the typical 13-15 handicap. For the last ten years I've spent more time on YouTube, lessons with instructors and just experimenting on my own to rid myself of the horrible affliction of "coming over the top" than you can imagine. For those not cursed with this disorder, you can't appreciate a well struck ball flying straight as an arrow landing flag high but twenty yards left. I know all the so called "fixes" because I have tried them all. Some more than others. I have them written down and came up with twelve coming from respected instructors. At what point do you just say screw it, that is just the way it is. My current fix that has served me the best is leading my downswing with a very strong left side (knee/hip) lateral move. Cures it 37% of the time. Am I really destined to live with this for the remaining time I have left to play?

 

Fixes that did not work or worked very little:

1) Reverse 8 - Jim Furyk

2) Hit ball to right field

3) Swing to spot in front/right of ball

4) Hit back/inside of ball

5) Point handle to right field on downswing

6) Hit a draw - which I cannot do

7) Keep wrist flat

8) Pause at the top, let club head drop

9) Right elbow tuck

10) Just swing to the target

11) Play ball further back in stance

12) Lead downswing with strong lateral knee/hip - current partial cure.

 

Any advice or sympathy appreciated.

 

I feel your pain. 58 y.o here and have been playing for 35 years. My former boss told me I will die a bad golfer. I am starting to believe him. I have tried lessons, taken tips from forums, watched you tube video's. I have improved my consistency by swinging from the ground up on the downswing. But, nothing amazing. I am still shooting 90's on an easy course. 100 on a ball eating track. 

Edited by Sandhills Golfe
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