The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

[lastings]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

And I am very much against bifurcation.

I am in agreement with this.  Pro Golfer and schlubs should all be allowed the same equipment.  

if it's necessary to roll back the distance on the balls to save the courses, roll it back for everyone.  If your ball doesn't fly far enough, play from a different set of tees.   That is how Schlubs compensate for the distance disparity currently,  that's how it can remain.  

[cooke119]

I voted NO because I love watching the pros crush the ball down the fairway. There are plenty of times they get themselves in trouble by hitting long but into the trees or over the fans on the sidelines. I love the recovery shots they are able to pull off. Of course the "average" golfer is not going to hit like a pro, they work out all the time, have gotten stronger, technology is improving, and the balls are really good. IMHO courses should not be made harder, that would really impact the enjoyment of the average golfer who plays that course from the forward tees, (not the Pro tees). I live on Long Island, NY and please do not make Bethpage Black any harder then it already is! Even the other four courses at Bethpage are challenging, the Yellow being the easiest, (IMO), they don't need to be made harder. Damn trees are all over the place, LOL.

 

[The Hook Meister]

It's not the ball,l it's the person hitting the ball. Technology plays a part i n it also. New and better golf heads with a bigger sweet spot, and graphite shafts  As a non pro all  can say is thank-you technology!

[tinker]

I don’t think tour distance is the problem as much as how they set up modern tour courses to encourage bomb and gouge. Narrow fairways and grow high rough like the old fashioned US Opens and problem solved.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, tinker said:

I don’t think tour distance is the problem as much as how they set up modern tour courses to encourage bomb and gouge. Narrow fairways and grow high rough like the old fashioned US Opens and problem solved.

You'd think so, but yet…

I recall very clearly a number of years ago, maybe even the year Phil blew up at Winged Foot, that they were saying that if the fairways were going to be narrow and the rough thick, it favors the long hitters because everyone is going to be in the long stuff pretty often, and when would you rather be there: with a wedge in your hands, or a 6-iron? Not to mention that a long hitter can hit a driving iron out there 250 when they need to, while a shorter hitter may still need driver or at least 3W.

[cutchemist42]

I just dont understand how anyone thinks its a problem. They are pros, I expect them to be better and more precise. I want to see the pinnacle of the sport, not some dumbed down version.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

I just dont understand how anyone thinks its a problem. They are pros, I expect them to be better and more precise. I want to see the pinnacle of the sport, not some dumbed down version.

A lot of people think it's a problem. Nowhere near a majority, but they're out there.

I kinda "get" how they can see it as a problem, but I just don't: I don't think a problem affecting such a tiny % of people should be a "problem." Since I'm against bifurcation, then I land on "don't do anything about it."

[Piz]

How many people, thinking that it is just too darn easy for those NBA guys to dunk, have raised their driveway hoop a foot or two?  My guess would be none.

[MuniGrit]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

You'd think so, but yet…

I recall very clearly a number of years ago, maybe even the year Phil blew up at Winged Foot, that they were saying that if the fairways were going to be narrow and the rough thick, it favors the long hitters because everyone is going to be in the long stuff pretty often, and when would you rather be there: with a wedge in your hands, or a 6-iron? Not to mention that a long hitter can hit a driving iron out there 250 when they need to, while a shorter hitter may still need driver or at least 3W.

When Phil didn't have a driver in the bag and couldn't hit a fairway? That wasn't winged foot but it did in his last victory on tour.

[lastings]

It’s really only a problem in that it’s making great tour courses obsolete.  Which is something to consider. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, lastings said:

It’s really only a problem in that it’s making great tour courses obsolete.  Which is something to consider. 

For some Tour players. And even if it was ALL Tour players, they're still a tiny fraction of the golf population.

Also, we're still having British Opens at St. Andrews, and Oakmont is still hosting U.S. Opens, etc.

[lastings]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

For some Tour players. And even if it was ALL Tour players, they're still a tiny fraction of the golf population.

Yeah, I’m just talking from a viewership standpoint.  Obviously from a playing standpoint, the thought of courses being too short is laughable.  Even the guys I play with that drive 300 consistently aren’t breaking 80 very often.

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

Also, we're still having British Opens at St. Andrews, and Oakmont is still hosting U.S. Opens, etc.

Not to mention Pebble Beach, and Augusta at the Masters.  Obviously, it’s not killing every course, but there are a lot of courses that could never host a tour event again. 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by lastings

[Jack Watson]

Ultimately great golf is about power and precision ballstriking wise. 

The course is supposed to make lower scoring by hitting fairways off the tee farther the better,  but rough should be more penal.  Jmo.

Just blasting it out there and recovering too much is not proper imo.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Jack Watson

[lastings]

12 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Ultimately great golf is about power and precision ballstriking wise. 

The course is supposed to make lower scoring by hitting fairways off the tee farther the better,  but rough should be more penal.  Jmo.

Just blasting it out there and recovering too much is not proper imo.

Not sure exactly what you are saying. 

But, the issue at hand is that course designers put trouble in specific areas.  particularily, where big hitters hit their drives.  The design goal being to make the big hitters hit their drives into tight spots or dial it back and hit and iron/fairway wood to a safe area.  

The problem is that big hitters, on some courses, are now able to carry that trouble.  This makes the course designers plans obsolete.  If you can’t move the tees back far enough to bring that trouble back in play, then you don’t have a tour course. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by lastings

[joro]

I don't care how long who hits it, but what I do care is the complete changes that they make to pacify the few Bombers.    They have changed so many great courses with what they call Tigerizing that they have lost their individuality and are just a series of 18 Driving Ranges where the "normal" hitter is out.    Take last week for example, Potter was as much as 60 yrs behind DJ, who is exceptionally long I admit, but why should the average guy have to look thru Binoculars to see his partner is, ridicules!!!!!      

Keep the Balls and the Drivers, but make the holes, if they have to change them, tougher, put hazards in the  fairways on the 310+ holes so it takes some skill for long hitter to hit the Driver, is having some skill a problem?      But it will go on like this and as equipment people figure out how to go longer the players will get stronger, bigger, and science will develop them, so the rest of us are doomed to Hernias.

[saevel25]

23 minutes ago, joro said:

Take last week for example, Potter was as much as 60 yrs behind DJ, who is exceptionally long I admit, but why should the average guy have to look thru Binoculars to see his partner is, ridicules!!!!!      

Athletic advantage exists in all sports. It took Tiger, and the next era of golfers, to make that advantage apparent. In the end, people are always going to cry about it. To the PGA Tour players who think it is unfair, go do something else.

25 minutes ago, joro said:

But it will go on like this and as equipment people figure out how to go longer the players will get stronger, bigger, and science will develop them, so the rest of us are doomed to Hernias.

In terms of ball speed on solid hits, it hasn't changed in over 15 years. What has changed is the ability to expand that sweet spot out. Also, golf fitting has allowed golfers to eek out every available yard.

There is a limit to this. I think we are near it. You don't have long drive champions competing on the PGA Tour because they don't have the accuracy. It's really amazing how well DJ and Rory hit the ball that far and keep it on the course. It has more to do with their playing ability than it does the equipment.

[klineka]

54 minutes ago, joro said:

They have changed so many great courses with what they call Tigerizing that they have lost their individuality and are just a series of 18 Driving Ranges where the "normal" hitter is out.  

but make the holes, if they have to change them, tougher, put hazards in the  fairways on the 310+ holes so it takes some skill for long hitter to hit the Driver, is having some skill a problem?   

Making the courses tougher, longer, and with more hazards in play off the tee is quite literally the definition of "tigerizing" courses. 

One sentence you dont like "tigerizing" but a few sentences later you are advocating for exactly what "tigerizing" is? 

By being one of the longest drivers on tour, that shows that you already have more skill than the other players on tour. 

So you want to penalize the longest hitters on tour (who already are more skilled at that aspect of golf than a shorter hitter) simply because they are more skilled than shorter hitting players? That doesnt make sense to me.

 

54 minutes ago, joro said:

Take last week for example, Potter was as much as 60 yrs behind DJ, who is exceptionally long I admit, but why should the average guy have to look thru Binoculars to see his partner is, ridicules!!!!!      

Yet Potter Jr. still won... 

 

54 minutes ago, joro said:

But it will go on like this and as equipment people figure out how to go longer the players will get stronger, bigger, and science will develop them, so the rest of us are doomed to Hernias.

Stop trying to make it seem like advancements in technology have only benefited professional players and haven't helped amateurs at all. 

As amateurs, we have access to pretty much the same exact clubs as the pros have, and pretty much the same technology (trackman, GC Quad, high speed cameras, etc.) as well. 

Amateurs can get stronger and bigger and use science to develop themselves as well. Not sure how hernias are related to this.

Edited February 15, 2018 by klineka

[iacas]

3 hours ago, joro said:

Take last week for example,

You realize Potter won, right?

3 hours ago, joro said:

but why should the average guy have to look thru Binoculars to see his partner is, ridicules!!!!!

Uhm, because he swings a lot slower than Dustin Johnson.

Dustin swings at 120.65 MPH this year so far, and Potter at 112.24. Why should they be any closer? How is that fair?

3 hours ago, joro said:

Keep the Balls and the Drivers, but make the holes, if they have to change them, tougher, put hazards in the  fairways on the 310+ holes so it takes some skill for long hitter to hit the Driver, is having some skill a problem?

a) The fairway is already effectively narrower for them: their 3° offline is more likely to find the rough than a shorter hitter 3° offline.
b) Swinging fast is a skill, too. Just like running fast is in the NFL, or skating fast is in the NHL, etc.

It would be unfair to punish ONLY the longer hitters by having crap only at 310+ yards.