Adam Scott Returning to the Long Putter

[Zeph]

If they banned on length, you couldn't putt with a driver if your putter broke, or you accidentally lodged it into a tree.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Zeph

[iacas]

17 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Coulda done both.  ;)

a:

16 hours ago, Zeph said:

If they banned on length, you couldn't putt with a driver if your putter broke, or you accidentally lodged it into a tree.

b: they didn't want to ban the equipment, they wanted to ban the "stroke" that they didn't feel was a stroke.

[Golfingdad]

16 hours ago, Zeph said:

If they banned on length, you couldn't putt with a driver if your putter broke, or you accidentally lodged it into a tree.

Lol at “accidentally.”

[inthehole]

doesn't matter - the rules officials never call anyone out for anchoring anyways.    From the start I've always thought they got it wrong - should have just banned the equipment not the technique for the professional ranks, then you wouldn't have the whole Langer situation.  Let the amateurs use broomsticks, pro's should be held to a higher level.    Iacas ... you said "have at it"  ... thats always been my opinion.

Edited December 17, 2017 by inthehole

[Missouri Swede]

10 minutes ago, inthehole said:

From the start I've always thought they got it wrong - should have just banned the equipment not the technique for the professional ranks,

Ban the putter?  (I know you don't mean that.)

Limit it to a certain length? Shorter guys (and ladies) can then anchor in their belly, but taller folks can't.

So what equipment would you like banned, without specifying the technique?  (I'm not trying to be glib.  I kind of feel the same way, but then it gets hard to be specific about the equipment without it becoming too specific:  "xxxx ratio of the height of the golfer" or something--I can't see that being practical.)

[colin007]

How about just a rule that says "the putter must not be longer than the longest iron in the bag"?

[MuniGrit]

I didn't like the ban anyway. If it was so great, everyone should have been doing it.

[Groucho Valentine]

"It just looks funny on TV and we dont like it." -USGA official talking about the actual reason for the anchoring ban. 

But anyway. It feels like Adam Scott is letting us down. Anchoring putting doesn't make putting easier IMO, and its a skill that you have to learn. But something about anchored putting always felt a little "cheaty" to me. I could never quite put my finger on it. 

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I didn't like the ban anyway. If it was so great, everyone should have been doing it.

Bad logic there. No.

1 minute ago, Groucho Valentine said:

"It just looks funny on TV and we dont like it." -USGA official talking about the actual reason for the anchoring ban.

Cite your source, please.

[MuniGrit]

31 minutes ago, iacas said:

Bad logic there. No.

 

Banning the long putter was stupid. I don't use one and anyone I knew that used one couldn't putt. Plenty of people complained and the tour got tired of hearing about it and changed the rule. There are plenty of other rules that needed to be fixed before that one. At least it gives guys something to talk about whether or not Bernhard/Scott M/ and now Scott are still anchoring or not.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MuniGrit said:

Banning the long putter was stupid.

It wasn't banned.

1 hour ago, MuniGrit said:

I don't use one and anyone I knew that used one couldn't putt. Plenty of people complained and the tour got tired of hearing about it and changed the rule.

The "Tour" didn't change the rule. Heck, the "Tour" threatened in a small way not to follow the rule, until they got on board.

1 hour ago, MuniGrit said:

There are plenty of other rules that needed to be fixed before that one.

Okay…?

[disco111]

The banned usage of anchoring was/is a total joke. For well over 20+ years it was legal, until a couple of players started winning when using it and a few influential players got their shorts bunched up and started moaning foul. The USGA/R&A catered and made IMO, a political appeasement move. 

But it's totally fine for Matt Kuchar to anchor against his forearm, I mean anchoring is anchoring, but that's OK, only because it looks like a more natural standard putting stroke. I really would like to see Scott use and win with the long putter un-anchored and see the fallout that would ensue, with those again yelling foul and again the USGA jumps up with banning rhetoric. Then have Scott follow in Ping's and VJ's footsteps and stand up against them.      

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, disco111 said:

But it's totally fine for Matt Kuchar to anchor against his forearm, I mean anchoring is anchoring,  

Because it's not really about "anchoring" in that sense of the word. It's about the arms swinging freely. When a putter is stuck in your belly, it's a pendulum. When it's stuck to your arm, your arms are still required to swing (and thus to swing the putter).

5 minutes ago, disco111 said:

I really would like to see Scott use and win with the long putter un-anchored and see the fallout that would ensue

Uh, there would be no uproar. Bernhard Langer and Scott McCarron have been using long putters unanchored. Bernhard played in the U.S. Senior Open and to win three majors, including the British Senior Open. The R&A, as you know, co-administer the Rules with the USGA.

[disco111]

25 minutes ago, iacas said:

Because it's not really about "anchoring" in that sense of the word. It's about the arms swinging freely. When a putter is stuck in your belly, it's a pendulum. When it's stuck to your arm, your arms are still required to swing (and thus to swing the putter).

Uh, there would be no uproar. Bernhard Langer and Scott McCarron have been using long putters unanchored. Bernhard played in the U.S. Senior Open and to win three majors, including the British Senior Open. The R&A, as you know, co-administer the Rules with the USGA.

I understand the concept of Kuchar's stroke, that's why I used the more standard stroke reference. When using a belly putter, it's not a pendulum stroke. The stroke is still made with the arms and hands and the putter angle is very much the same as a standard putter not pressed to the belly. Now the long putter is closer to, but not quite a pendulum stroke. There still is an angle from putter head to shaft. 

There is reported griping coming from the senior tour about Langer and the USGA has clarified that he is not anchoring, but rumblings are still on going. Main point of contention is that it happened once and IMO, could/would very easily happen again, if the big tour started to have guys winning with it again.  

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, disco111 said:

I understand the concept of Kuchar's stroke, that's why I used the more standard stroke reference. When using a belly putter, it's not a pendulum stroke. The stroke is still made with the arms and hands and the putter angle is very much the same as a standard putter not pressed to the belly. Now the long putter is closer to, but not quite a pendulum stroke. There still is an angle from putter head to shaft.

The point is that the handle is still more free to move around when it's not anchored in a belly or to your chest. The putter swings freely - no part of it is going to be held in relatively one place in all three dimensions.

52 minutes ago, disco111 said:

There is reported griping coming from the senior tour about Langer and the USGA has clarified that he is not anchoring, but rumblings are still on going. Main point of contention is that it happened once and IMO, could/would very easily happen again, if the big tour started to have guys winning with it again.  

I think that if you misunderstand why the USGA/R&A put the rule in place, as you have done, you can see it that way.

But if you understand why the USGA/R&A created the rule - to prevent anchoring the end of the putter so that the putter has to swing "freely," then you can understand how they don't have a problem with what Bernhard or what either "Scott" are doing.

[disco111]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

The point is that the handle is still more free to move around when it's not anchored in a belly or to your chest. The putter swings freely - no part of it is going to be held in relatively one place in all three dimensions.

Well Kuchar's does not fit that criteria. His handle is braced against his forearm and is held as you specified - in relatively one place in all three dementions

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I think that if you misunderstand why the USGA/R&A put the rule in place, as you have done, you can see it that way.

I totally understand "WHY" it was put in place, as I previously stated.  

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Again, I understand at the present time, they have no problem with the un-anchored stroke, but that's not to say a problem might not be forth coming on the big tour if Scott should happen to win and others follow suit and start using the long putter again. I realize this is nothing more than pure speculation on my part, but my overall confidence in the USGA is not favorable.

Again, I understand at the present time, they have no problem with the un-anchored stroke, but that's not to say a problem might not be forth coming on the big tour if Scott should happen to win and others follow suit and start using the long putter again. I realize this is nothing more than pure speculation on my part, but my overall confidence in the USGA is not favorable.

Edited December 31, 2017 by iacas
Fixed Completely Screwed Up Formatting

[iacas]

First, please format posts properly. You typed everything inside the quote block, and I had to edit your post.

22 minutes ago, disco111 said:

Well Kuchar's does not fit that criteria. His handle is braced against his forearm and is held as you specified - in relatively one place in all three dementions

No it doesn't. It swings freely and the arms swing freely. That one point isn't anchored in one position.

The arm moves so the butt of the club moves. He's not using the point on his arm as a still, steady, unmoving pivot point.

If you meant it doesn't move relative to his forearm… that's not at all what I was saying? Of course the grip doesn't move relative to the thing holding it (your hands). That's not what I meant at all.

Anchoring isn't a "stroke." As I said before it's more like a pendulum. The arms, from the elbow on down, aren't "free" to move, nor is every part of the putter free to move about.

The USGA/R&A wanted the players to have more "freedom" or be required to show more control. Anchoring the butt of the club into your belly or your sternum does not provide the desired degree of freedom. Nor would anchoring the putter into your armpit, or a close proxy: anchoring your forearm to your chest, etc.

22 minutes ago, disco111 said:

I totally understand "WHY" it was put in place, as I previously stated.  

You got that part wrong. It wasn't about how it looks, it was about whether it met the definition of a "stroke" or not.

Heck, all kinds of goofy putting styles are legal. They banned anchoring because it isn't a stroke, and they didn't like the decreased skill needed to putt with an anchored stroke. Straight from the horse's mouths at the USGA. I imagine the R&A feel similarly.

22 minutes ago, disco111 said:

Again, I understand at the present time, they have no problem with the un-anchored stroke, but that's not to say a problem might not be forth coming on the big tour if Scott should happen to win and others follow suit and start using the long putter again. I realize this is nothing more than pure speculation on my part, but my overall confidence in the USGA is not favorable.

Because you don't understand the "why," you're led to think this.

If Adam Scott doesn't anchor, they have no problem with that method of putting, as they've demonstrated quite often re: Bernhard, McCarron, etc.

[Vinsk]

That finely pressed shirt has a nice wrinkle in it where it’s very suspect to me that his forearm is in contact with his body. That slick water-wicking shirt would not hold that wrinkle from only contact by his arm and no body contact involved. This was taking immediately after contacting the ball. His arm never flinched nor moved away from his chest from backstroke to the follow through. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by Vinsk