TaylorMade M3/M4 Discussion

[klineka]

Taylormade has now released the M3/M4 drivers on their website, with some pretty interesting information about the technology that is inside:

"TWIST FACE

A radical departure from traditional driver-face design, Twist Face is engineered to take you farther and straighter… right down the center of the fairway.

Twist Face presents a revolutionary new face curvature with a corrective face angle on off-center hits, engineered to reduce side spin and deliver straighter shots. By providing more loft in the high-toe and less loft in the low-heel, this groundbreaking technology produces more consistent side spin in the areas where golfers commonly mis-hit.

HAMMERHEAD SLOT

TaylorMade’s new Hammerhead slot creates a massive sweet spot that pushes the limit of ballspeed to produce distance and forgiveness across the entire face.

The reinforced outer portions of the slot allow for a lighter, more flexible face, while the center portion of the slot increases ballspeed on low-face strikes and drops spin for more distance. The result is a powerful and forgiving driver that delivers exceptional sound and feel."

It looks like both the M3 and M4 come in lofts of 8.5, 9.5, 10.5, and 12 for RH, with 9.5 and 10.5 in LH as well. They also have the D-Type for the M4, a Ladies M4, Ladies M4 D-Type, and a 440cc M3. The M3 price on Taylormade is $499.99 and the M4 is $429.99

Here is a link to the page about the new technology http://www.taylormadegolf.com/m3-m4-drivers.html?CID=us%3Atm%3Aemail%3A2018-embargo-metalwoods

Here is a link directly to the product page for the drivers http://www.taylormadegolf.com/taylormade-drivers-M3-M4/

It doesnt even look like they are available for preorder yet, but I imagine that will be coming soon.

Personally I'm not quite sure if I like the looks of the 2017 M1/M2 or the M3/M4 better. Curious to hear others thoughts on the new technology and the design as well!

 

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by klineka

[Mr. Desmond]

Looks good - twist face is newish thinking. Callaway? Oh, Callaway...

[phillyk]

Nice little video of the new tech.  I've never been a big Taylormade guy, but this is certainly interesting and I might get a demo for my shop 

[b101]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Twist face is newish thinking. 

Respectfully, I disagree: https://mygolfspy.com/2018-taylormade-m3-m4-drivers-fairways-hybrids/

I have my doubts about this, as I do with all TaylorMade marketing...

[JxQx]

It will be interesting to see actual testing with the new design.

[Riverdad]

If this really works, I am surprised that USGA would call it conforming. Looks like a bigger advantage than an anchored putter to me.

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Nice little video of the new tech.  I've never been a big Taylormade guy, but this is certainly interesting and I might get a demo for my shop 

I don't really get it…

• My low-heel shots tend to come out lower. This delivers even less loft.
• My high-toe shots tend to come out higher. This club delivered even more loft.

Isn't that typical? Why did he say low heel shots are hit with the club coming in slightly open?

[phillyk]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't really get it…

• My low-heel shots tend to come out lower. This delivers even less loft.
• My high-toe shots tend to come out higher. This club delivered even more loft.

Isn't that typical? Why did he say low heel shots are hit with the club coming in slightly open?

That is pretty typical.  

From what I gather, they are trying to optimize RPMs.  A low heeler often has a higher RPM while high toers have less RPM.  So they are adjusting loft in those areas in hopes to optimize launch and reduce the intensity of your misses.

They only mentioned this left/right dispersion, so I wonder how it changes the overall forgiveness on distance for those shot types.

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, klineka said:

Twist Face presents a revolutionary new face curvature with a corrective face angle on off-center hits, engineered to reduce side spin and deliver straighter shots. By providing more loft in the high-toe and less loft in the low-heel, this groundbreaking technology produces more consistent side spin in the areas where golfers commonly mis-hit.

I don't get this.

Typically I see low heel shots start off lower, left, and they cut back right. They tend to produce much higher spin rates because they are struck lower on the face and are typically poorly struck. High heel shots tend to do the opposite. Start of right, higher and draw back. This is designed this way to complement the gear effect on drivers.

I don't get the reason why they would reduce the loft more on low-heel shots. Maybe they want to reduce spin on low-heel shots and increase spin on high toe?

Maybe they are taking some of the bulge and roll off the clubface. This could produce a slightly less leftward starting ball, with less spin.

Typcially the lower you hit the ball the more spin you want to keep the ball in the air.

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, phillyk said:

That is pretty typical.

Right, so…

27 minutes ago, phillyk said:

From what I gather, they are trying to optimize RPMs.  A low heeler often has a higher RPM while high toers have less RPM.  So they are adjusting loft in those areas in hopes to optimize launch and reduce the intensity of your misses.

Thing is… with a lower launch, you want the higher RPMs. They're reducing the loft on heel hits (so, lower launch and lower RPM), and increasing the loft on toe hits (so higher launch and even higher RPMs).

If you're gonna launch it low, you don't want to have lower RPMs, and if you're going to launch it high, you don't want higher RPMs. Plus, again, if you launch it low, you don't want to launch it lower, and vice versa for high: you don't want it to go even higher.

 

 

It doesn't make sense to me.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, b101 said:

Respectfully, I disagree: https://mygolfspy.com/2018-taylormade-m3-m4-drivers-fairways-hybrids/

I have my doubts about this, as I do with all TaylorMade marketing...

That's typical of TaylorMade. Cobra isn't a big enough name out there that your typical golfer would know this information. Hell, I didn't.

---

Not sure this would work for me. My high toe shots start high right, not low left. My low heel shots come out low left.

26 minutes ago, phillyk said:

From what I gather, they are trying to optimize RPMs.  A low heeler often has a higher RPM while high toers have less RPM.  So they are adjusting loft in those areas in hopes to optimize launch and reduce the intensity of your misses.

They only mentioned this left/right dispersion, so I wonder how it changes the overall forgiveness on distance for those shot types.

The only way this makes sense to me right now is if they are completely ignoring the spin effect on distance and throwing all their chips on lateral dispersion. Just being closer to center isn't necessarily more accurate.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

Not sure this would work for me. My high toe shots start high right, not low left. My low heel shots come out low left.

They didn't say otherwise. You missed something, somewhere…

They're saying that they over-curve. So high toe over-curves and ends up 8 yards left. Low heel over-cuts and ends up 6 yards right.

[Mr. Desmond]

1 hour ago, b101 said:

Respectfully, I disagree: https://mygolfspy.com/2018-taylormade-m3-m4-drivers-fairways-hybrids/

I have my doubts about this, as I do with all TaylorMade marketing...

Thanks. Okay, so it's newish labeling ... haven't kept up lately and don't read mygolfspy. And I have a personal 7 yr embargo on TM after the RBZ hype.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Mr. Desmond

[phillyk]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thing is… with a lower launch, you want the higher RPMs. They're reducing the loft on heel hits (so, lower launch and lower RPM), and increasing the loft on toe hits (so higher launch and even higher RPMs).

If you're gonna launch it low, you don't want to have lower RPMs, and if you're going to launch it high, you don't want higher RPMs. Plus, again, if you launch it low, you don't want to launch it lower, and vice versa for high: you don't want it to go even higher.

Maybe their idea is that we'd be willing to sacrifice distance on miss-hits by trying to reduce that left/right dispersion.  So (throwing out completely random numbers) instead of 280yds with 6yds right, they'd make it 240yds and 2yds right? Then add in their hammerhead slot, and distance goes back to normal on those miss-hits? It definitely is starting to sound gimmicky and marketing hype.

I think I initially fell for the marketing, kudos to them for that.  I'm back to being not a Taylormade guy.  Hopefully we'll get some real reviews/data on it's effects soon.

[RayG]

Now for the important question- When do the M1's and M2's get discounted to a reasonable level?

 

[Veteran Golf Fan]

Interesting that the "gear effect" has been around for a long time.  New way of saying the same thing.

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Maybe their idea is that we'd be willing to sacrifice distance on miss-hits by trying to reduce that left/right dispersion.  So (throwing out completely random numbers) instead of 280yds with 6yds right, they'd make it 240yds and 2yds right? Then add in their hammerhead slot, and distance goes back to normal on those miss-hits? It definitely is starting to sound gimmicky and marketing hype.

That's not exactly what I'm talking about, though.

I'm just trying to understand why they think toe hits are hit low and heel hits are hit high.

They act like toe hits are hit too low, and heel hits are hit too high.

If this lowers heel hits, and raises toe hits… that seems very detrimental.

The guy says "when you hit that high toe shot, what happens? You get a little knuckle-y shot, so what you need is a bit more loft."

The bold is the part I don't get. The club already has more loft there, and the ball launches too high. Adding more loft will add more spin… but also launch the ball even higher.

The key, I guess, is in that tradeoff. I wonder how much distance you give up, just to have the ball finish a bit straighter. I don't know that their Hammerhead can make up for that loss. High launch, typical spin is bad. Same with low launch, typical spin.

3 minutes ago, Veteran Golf Fan said:

Interesting that the "gear effect" has been around for a long time.  New way of saying the same thing.

It's more than just that: they're tweaking the gear effect a bit to be more than just a uniform bulge and roll.

[b101]

52 minutes ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Thanks. Okay, so it's newish labeling ... haven't kept up lately and don't read mygolfspy. And I have a personal 7 yr embargo on TM after the RBZ hype.

Similar - I fell for the Rocketbladez when I first restarted playing golf five years ago. Took me about four months to realise they were absolutely not helping me...

39 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Maybe their idea is that we'd be willing to sacrifice distance on miss-hits by trying to reduce that left/right dispersion.  So (throwing out completely random numbers) instead of 280yds with 6yds right, they'd make it 240yds and 2yds right? Then add in their hammerhead slot, and distance goes back to normal on those miss-hits? It definitely is starting to sound gimmicky and marketing hype.

Thing is, Callaway shifted a lot of units and won big on the Jailbreak technology. Therefore, TM has to go for something else as they can't win on distance currently, so they're attacking it from a different angle with the accuracy. Just not buying it after they've spent years and years marketing distance - remember super low spin and low launch Aeroburner and SLDR?

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

They act like toe hits are hit too low, and heel hits are hit too high.

If this lowers heel hits, and raises toe hits… that seems very detrimental.

The guy says "when you hit that high toe shot, what happens? You get a little knuckle-y shot, so what you need is a bit more loft."

The bold is the part I don't get. The club already has more loft there, and the ball launches too high. Adding more loft will add more spin… but also launch the ball even higher.

The key, I guess, is in that tradeoff. I wonder how much distance you give up, just to have the ball finish a bit straighter. I don't know that their Hammerhead can make up for that loss. High launch, typical spin is bad. Same with low launch, typical spin.

It's more than just that: they're tweaking the gear effect a bit to be more than just a uniform bulge and roll.

I reckon you're over-thinking it. I think they're just relying on pretty pictures and a lot of hype to fool people, regardless of what the actual facts are.