2018 Masters Tournament Discussion Topic

[colin007]

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/sports/comments/8b3txg/phrasing/

 

3 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Must. Maintain. Control.... So many possible comments...

Lol I thought I see the only one to notice that....

[StefanUrkel]

Every topic about him has been about not letting his children meet their grandparents.  What could they have possibly done to deserve this?

[saevel25]

All anyone could say is pure speculation, and not worth talking about. There are plenty of families out there that have cut each other out of their lives. It happens.

No need to discuss anything further on this.

[Hardluckster]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And what did he do that's on that list?

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/reed-accused-cheating-stealing-book-excerpt/

 

[klineka]

22 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/reed-accused-cheating-stealing-book-excerpt/

 

Honestly, after reading the entire excerpt from the book, I like him more. The guy is a hell of a competitor. To come back and beat your former team for your second straight national championship? That's impressive.

I have a question for you. What is your opinion of Dustin Johnson?

IMO, the fact that DJ has been suspended 3 separate times for using marijuana and cocaine while on the PGA tour is a much more significant issue than Patrick Reed being accused of cheating or stealing while still a kid in college.

Edited April 10, 2018 by klineka

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Hardluckster said:

On the pertinence issue, we will have to disagree.

While I know that young people do a lot of stupid things (I include myself in that list), there are some things that are not excusable because he was "just a college kid".  There are some things that you don't do - at any age.  

I asked what he did to get put on your list of "inexcusable" things. You replied:

33 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/reed-accused-cheating-stealing-book-excerpt/

My what a saint you must be @Hardluckster! To take an unproven allegation by teammates that hated him (and likely hated being beaten by him), almost a decade ago, and to put him in your "inexcusable" list.

[Hardluckster]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Honestly, after reading the entire excerpt from the book, I like him more. The guy is a hell of a competitor. To come back and beat your former team for your second straight national championship? That's impressive.

I have a question for you. What is your opinion of Dustin Johnson?

That's fine.    If we all thought exactly the same it would be a boring world.

I do not dislike Patrick Reed, I am just not really a fan.  I never have been, and to be honest I had no reason not to be a fan when he first came to the tour - its just one of those things where we are drawn to certain individuals and not to others.

The college issues, if in fact true, are troubling to me.  Honor and integrity are very important qualities.  I have no direct knowledge of Reed's exploits at UGA but there appears to have very possibly been some degree of dishonest behavior.  There are at least enough reported accusations to bring his integrity into question.  Again, I'm not a Reed-hater.  I'm just not a fan.

As for DJ, I'm kind of ambivalent.  I think that his personal life, just as with anyone else, is his own business.  How other people perceive you is, however, influenced by those actions.  He must accept that criticism, as must we all.

[Hardluckster]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

I asked what he did to get put on your list of "inexcusable" things. You replied:

My what a saint you must be @Hardluckster! To take an unproven allegation by teammates that hated him (and likely hated being beaten by him), almost a decade ago, and to put him in your "inexcusable" list.

I am far from a saint.  Your label, not mine.

You have never questioned anyone for alleged bad behavior?  If not, you would probably qualify as more a saint than I.  

I do not know if he is guilty.  You do not know that he is innocent.  I think the fact that neither of his coaches stood up for him is to some degree very damning.  Maybe that makes me a bad person in your eyes and others also, but it is honestly my opinion.

And to be precise, I never stated that he was on my "inexcusable list", as you put it.  I simply stated that I think that those two things are inexcusable.  I never specifically indicated that I was completely convinced that he was guilty of those accusations.

There are people who cheat and steal.  I hope that he is not, and never has been one of those people.  Those are two things that cannot be excused as simply the stupid actions of a college-aged individual - those are two things that you just do not do.

Have a great day.  

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hardluckster

[klineka]

8 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

That's fine.    If we all thought exactly the same it would be a boring world.

I do not dislike Patrick Reed, I am just not really a fan.  I never have been, and to be honest I had no reason not to be a fan when he first came to the tour - its just one of those things where we are drawn to certain individuals and not to others.

The college issues, if in fact true, are troubling to me.  Honor and integrity are very important qualities.  I have no direct knowledge of Reed's exploits at UGA but there appears to have very possibly been some degree of dishonest behavior.  There are at least enough reported accusations to bring his integrity into question.  Again, I'm not a Reed-hater.  I'm just not a fan.

As for DJ, I'm kind of ambivalent.  I think that his personal life, just as with anyone else, is his own business.  How other people perceive you is, however, influenced by those actions.  He must accept that criticism, as must we all.

So you admit you are not a fan of someone that has been accused (and never was never proved guilty) of cheating and stealing as a kid over 10 years ago, but are ambivalent towards someone who actively used illegal drugs while being a member of the PGA tour. 

That makes no sense. 

Why are you giving DJ the pass and stating that confirmed and proven drug use is part of his personal life, but alleged and unproven instances of someone stealing and cheating while not a member of the PGA tour are not to be considered part of his personal life?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

I am far from a saint.  Your label, not mine.

Yeah, it's my label. But you've put someone on an "inexcusable actions" list for something he's only alleged to have done about a decade ago while in college.

Either your list of people you dislike and will never forgive is REALLY long, or you've got some odd criteria…

2 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

You have never questioned anyone for alleged bad behavior?  If not, you would probably qualify as more a saint than I.  

That doesn't have anything to do with this. And if you're "questioning" his behavior, it's not proven. Seems even dumber to hate on him for an allegation.

2 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

I do not know if he is guilty.  You do not know that he is innocent.  I think the fact that neither of his coaches stood up for him is to some degree very damning.  Maybe that makes me a bad person in your eyes and others also, but it is honestly my opinion.

His second coach is also his current coach, who has stuck by him and still advises him, and who said great things about him on Morning Drive.

2 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

There are people who cheat and steal.  I hope that he is not, and never has been one of those people.  Those are two things that cannot be excused as simply the stupid actions of a college-aged individual - those are two things that you just do not do.

It hasn't been proven that he did those things.

[Hardluckster]

Just now, iacas said:

Yeah, it's my label. But you've put someone on an "inexcusable actions" list for something he's only alleged to have done about a decade ago while in college.

Either your list of people you dislike and will never forgive is REALLY long, or you've got some odd criteria…

That doesn't have anything to do with this. And if you're "questioning" his behavior, it's not proven. Seems even dumber to hate on him for an allegation.

His second coach is also his current coach, who has stuck by him and still advises him, and who said great things about him on Morning Drive.

It hasn't been proven that he did those things.

You put words in my mouth all over this post.

To be precise, I never stated that he was on my "inexcusable list", as you put it.  I simply stated that I think that those two things are inexcusable.  I never specifically indicated that I was completely convinced that he was guilty of those accusations.

I clearly have stated that I was not a fan of Reed even before I knew of these allegations.

I also have never used the term "hate".  I play golf with people who I know cheat.  I do not hate them, in fact some of them are friends.  I just don't hold them in the same regard as someone who is honest.

I'll readily admit that it is possible that the allegations are unfounded.  That is possible.  It is also possible that they are true.

As for forgiveness, he doesn't need mine - and probably doesn't desire it.

[iacas]

Just now, Hardluckster said:

You put words in my mouth all over this post.

Agree to disagree. I shared how I interpreted what you've written. Like…

Just now, Hardluckster said:

To be precise, I never stated that he was on my "inexcusable list", as you put it.  I simply stated that I think that those two things are inexcusable.

Same thing. That's why you brought them up. You think he did those things, and that's why it's pertinent.

I don't think it's pertinent. I don't even consider those things, except when some goofball brings them up in, what, an effort to diminish what he just accomplished?

[Hardluckster]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

Same thing. That's why you brought them up. You think he did those things, and that's why it's pertinent.

You don't know why I brought them up, yet you accuse me of thinking that they are true.  

My original post was in response to the earlier posts about his family issues. 

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't think it's pertinent. I don't even consider those things, except when some goofball brings them up in, what, an effort to diminish what he just accomplished?

If you go back to my original post (#1573), I readily acknowledge that Reed has game.

Edited April 10, 2018 by Hardluckster

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

You don't know why I brought them up, yet you accuse me of thinking that they are true.  My what a saint you must be.

Why bring them up? You said they're pertinent. Why?

Discussing this with you has nothing to do with whether I'm a "saint" or not.

3 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

If you go back to my original post (#1573), I readily acknowledge that Reed has game.

So why bring that up? Why is it pertinent?

[klineka]

18 minutes ago, Hardluckster said:

I just don't hold them in the same regard as someone who is honest.

You hold someone who has failed drug tests for both marijuana and cocaine (twice) while on the PGA tour in a higher regard than someone who has been accused of cheating and stealing while in college. 

Before you state that I am putting words in your mouth, I am simply connecting the dots from what you have said. You said you are ambivalent (having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone) towards DJ and also said you aren't a fan of Reed, which means you view DJ in a more favorable light than Reed. 

That makes no sense to me.

[b101]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

You hold someone who has failed drug tests for both marijuana and cocaine (twice) while on the PGA tour in a higher regard than someone who has been accused of cheating and stealing while in college. 

Before you state that I am putting words in your mouth, I am simply connecting the dots from what you have said. You said you are ambivalent (having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone) towards DJ and also said you aren't a fan of Reed, which means you view DJ in a more favorable light than Reed. 

That makes no sense to me.

Playing Devil's advocate, I can sort of see an argument in a purely golfing sense. If Reed cheated then it would be harming other competitors, whereas DJ's infringements would only harm and affect himself. 

There is a lot of double standards on Reed. I'm not a massive fan of the College stuff, but hey, as others have said, we all did stupid stuff 10 years ago. I like him as a golfer and a competitor - he's probably my favourite out of Team USA, in fact. That said, I have no idea why people are bringing up the family stuff - it's utterly inconsequential.

[Hardluckster]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Why bring them up? You said they're pertinent. Why?

Discussing this with you has nothing to do with whether I'm a "saint" or not.

So why bring that up? Why is it pertinent?

Ok, I'll try to adequately explain.

There were quite a few posts about Reed and his family issues.  My post was an attempt to say that those issues are private and should be of little to no concern of golf fans.

My original post stated: "His issues during his college career, however, are issues that are pertinent to the general golf public."

To more accurately state what I was originally trying to say, I suppose it would have been more to the point to say: "His issues during his college career, if they are in fact true, are issues that could be more pertinent to the general golf public."

Being self-critical, the last sentence in that paragraph does seem to be an indictment of Reed (something that I honestly didn't intend because I have no knowledge of the truthfulness of the allegations): "Hopefully, he has matured and grown into an adult that now understands the error of his ways."  It would have been better stated had I posted: "Hopefully, if the allegations from college are indeed factual, hopefully he has matured and grown into an adult that now  understands the error of his ways."

Going back and re-reading my first post, I can see that my response was more critical of Patrick Reed than I intended.  To that, I plead guilty.

9 minutes ago, klineka said:

You hold someone who has failed drug tests for both marijuana and cocaine (twice) while on the PGA tour in a higher regard than someone who has been accused of cheating and stealing while in college. 

Before you state that I am putting words in your mouth, I am simply connecting the dots from what you have said. You said you are ambivalent (having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone) towards DJ and also said you aren't a fan of Reed, which means you view DJ in a more favorable light than Reed. 

That makes no sense to me.

I am ambivalent toward DJ as far as being a fan.

That comment was not meant to address his personal life.

[3jacker]

That helicopter finish is a bit overdone.

You know you don't have to do that to hit a fade.