12 HS players DQ’d from Tournament

[Shorty]

3 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

Essentially the officials made a mistake forgetting to move the markers, which in turn caused some of the golfers to make a mistake hitting from the wrong area. The kids get punished by being DQ’d, the officials can hide behind the Rules of Golf. Justify it however you want, it’s not right. 

No...the kids get punished for not following the rules of golf. Pretty simple. In the same way that if an adult said "Ah...pick it up, that's good" and he/she did in a stroke event. Not being old enough to drive does not mean you are excused for not following an obvious and very basic rule of golf.

[sjduffers]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

11-4b: http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-11,11-4

Or just look it up and then you'll learn a little!

I knew that was coming, probably deservedly so. 

For the record, I knew the rule at some point, it's just that I forgot it (you'll see that happens as you get older!): I mean the situation does not happen all that often... if you overlook the guy teeing an inch in front of the markers every weekend. Ah!

Edited May 18, 2018 by sjduffers

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

Essentially the officials made a mistake forgetting to move the markers, which in turn caused some of the golfers to make a mistake hitting from the wrong area. The kids get punished by being DQ’d, the officials can hide behind the Rules of Golf. Justify it however you want, it’s not right. 

No, the kids, ahhhh, @Shorty said it:

20 minutes ago, Shorty said:

No...the kids get punished for not following the rules of golf. Pretty simple. In the same way that if an adult said "Ah...pick it up, that's good" and he/she did in a stroke event. Not being old enough to drive does not mean you are excused for not following an obvious and very basic rule of golf.

There it is.

Kids need to learn lessons. This likely taught them one of those types of lessons.

[Nwehrman]

I’m not trying to debate the rules with you guys. I imagine you guys could all recite the rule book in order word for word front to back. Which is great and all but that’s not really my point. It’s a shitty situation for the kids. If I was in charge, the official who was supposed to move the markers wouldn’t have a job. Is that fair? I think we can all agree that if they had moved them to the correct spot there would be no issue but since he didn’t here we are. So the kids get DQ’d for not following the rules of golf, should whoever was supposed to move the markers be fired for not doing their job?

[Vinsk]

31 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

I’m not trying to debate the rules with you guys. I imagine you guys could all recite the rule book in order word for word front to back. Which is great and all but that’s not really my point. It’s a shitty situation for the kids. If I was in charge, the official who was supposed to move the markers wouldn’t have a job. Is that fair? I think we can all agree that if they had moved them to the correct spot there would be no issue but since he didn’t here we are. So the kids get DQ’d for not following the rules of golf, should whoever was supposed to move the markers be fired for not doing their job?

No. Whoever moved/set/the tees/told the kids incorrectly is/are not the final say in such matter. The player is. Had they simply looked for the blue tees and played from them this whole issue never would’ve happened. 

[Nwehrman]

7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

No. Whoever moved/set/the tees/told the kids incorrectly is/are not the final say in such matter. The player is. Had they simply looked for the blue tees and played from them this whole issue never would’ve happened. 

If the person in charge of placing the tee markers had put them in the right spot this whole issue would have never happened.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

If the person in charge of placing the tee markers had put them in the right spot this whole issue would have never happened.

Oh brother.

[Vinsk]

12 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

If the person in charge of placing the tee markers had put them in the right spot this whole issue would have never happened.

The markers were fine. Had the players played from the blue tees, it wouldn’t matter where they were placed. The issue wasn’t improperly placed blue tees! They wouldn’t have been faulted as that would not be their fault. They didn’t play from the blue tees, the correct tees. Got it?

[Asheville]

8 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

@iacas They didn’t assume the markers were in the wrong spot. The markers WERE in the wrong spot. They hit from where they were supposed to hit as per the official tournament scorecard. 

If you want to lay some blame on the kids that’s fine but the fact is someone in charge messed up. Whether it was not moving the tees or not having the right distance on the scorecard, and they handled it terribly by punishing the kids. 

When you're in a hole, stop digging.

[Shorty]

2 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

If the person in charge of placing the tee markers had put them in the right spot this whole issue would have never happened.

And if it had snowed that day they wouldn't have played. Does that make it easier to accept blame where it's due? Thought not.

[Big C]

3 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

I’m not trying to debate the rules with you guys. I imagine you guys could all recite the rule book in order word for word front to back. Which is great and all but that’s not really my point. It’s a shitty situation for the kids. 

I don't want to diminish the disappointment these kids must feel after a pretty lousy set of circumstances led to their dis-qualification. But you could argue that - taking the long run view - this could actually benefit them in the long run. 

My suspicion is that each of those 12 will be diligent about reading the rules sheets for all future tournaments. And more than willing to question or think for themselves when they are given information that contradicts the rules as they understand them. 

The bottom line is that this sort of stuff happens all the time. I have been given bad rules information more frequently than I care to admit - usually by people that have been playing the game for far longer than I have. If this experience gives these kids the confidence to think for themselves, learn the rules and trust their own knowledge, then I suspect it will be a net positive by the end of their golfing lives.

[Nwehrman]

1 hour ago, Shorty said:

And if it had snowed that day they wouldn't have played. Does that make it easier to accept blame where it's due? Thought not.

Alright man. Technically by the rulebook they deserved a DQ. You win. Stupid kids. But we just ignore the fact that a tournament official, in a state tournament no less, didn’t do their job? 

[Shorty]

18 minutes ago, Nwehrman said:

Alright man. Technically by the rulebook they deserved a DQ. You win. Stupid kids. But we just ignore the fact that a tournament official, in a state tournament no less, didn’t do their job? 

You still aren't getting it are you? Players have to do their job. I have never heard of people looking at a scorecard to work out where tees should be.

BTW - I'm not interested in "winning" with a kid who is clearly intelligent and very articulate.  Hopefully a lesson or two has been learnt.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Shorty

[Nwehrman]

After reading through the golf digest article it sounds like the kids did pretty much everything correct. They weren't sure so they asked a nearby coach. The coach asked a rules official just to make sure and that official told them to hit from the red tees. So assuming this is true, and it sounds like almost 20 different coaches and players from multiple schools say it is, then what? Apparently for one of the groups that got disqualified, they were about to hit from the blues when that rules official stopped them and told them they were playing from the reds on that hole.

[Rulesman]

The first instruction on the players' instruction sheet was to play from the blue tees.

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, Nwehrman said:

After reading through the golf digest article it sounds like the kids did pretty much everything correct. They weren't sure so they asked a nearby coach. The coach asked a rules official just to make sure and that official told them to hit from the red tees. So assuming this is true, and it sounds like almost 20 different coaches and players from multiple schools say it is, then what? Apparently for one of the groups that got disqualified, they were about to hit from the blues when that rules official stopped them and told them they were playing from the reds on that hole.

Oh goodness.....

[colin007]

So was it definitely a rules official?

[GolfLug]

8 hours ago, Big C said:

I don't want to diminish the disappointment these kids must feel after a pretty lousy set of circumstances led to their dis-qualification. But you could argue that - taking the long run view - this could actually benefit them in the long run. 

My suspicion is that each of those 12 will be diligent about reading the rules sheets for all future tournaments. And more than willing to question or think for themselves when they are given information that contradicts the rules as they understand them. 

The bottom line is that this sort of stuff happens all the time. I have been given bad rules information more frequently than I care to admit - usually by people that have been playing the game for far longer than I have. If this experience gives these kids the confidence to think for themselves, learn the rules and trust their own knowledge, then I suspect it will be a net positive by the end of their golfing lives.

Good post Colin. It seemed from the article that the kids took a very mature approach in accepting responsibility. Good on them.