2018 British Open Championship at Carnoustie

[Shindig]

Nice bounce-back birdie by Tiger!  

[DeadMan]

13 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

So as long as the greens are playable the rest of the course can be hardpan?  Watching the featured group, Matsuyama just hit a drive that rolled 140+ yards after it hit the ground.  It would've rolled further, but it ran into a ditch.  That's "playable"? I've seen plenty of courses I wouldn't pay $10 to play because they only water the greens and look identical to this.  I get this is links golf, but a ball rolling out over 140 yards is ridiculous and in my mind every bit as bad or worse as one unfair green on Shinnecock on one day of the tournament.

You're missing the point. You can think your way around this course and do well. Drivers rolling out that far brings a lot of trouble into play. You can't just reach for driver every hole and expect to play well here. Firm and fast makes the fairways narrower and brings more bunkers into play.

The scores also show that it's playable. It's still tough, but you can break par if you play well.

Give me this over a US Open with 20 yard fairways and 12 inch rough every day.

12 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

I had forgotten about the bad greens at chambers bay, so that's a fair criticism.  Shinnecock had one or maybe two bad greens on one day (3rd round) of the tournament, and everyone loses their minds.  The golf course doesn't need to be green, but there should be grass that's alive.  Everything but the greens look dead.  Drives rolling out over 400 yards because it rolled 140 yards after landing is stupid.  I guess I just don't understand how two bad greens on shinnecock cause a huge uproar, but basically no fairway or rough maintenance and nobody says a negative word about course conditions?  That just seems hypocritical to me.  It being "links golf" shouldn't be allowed to be used as an excuse for the R&A and not the USGA.

Brown grass does not mean dead grass ...

[billchao]

7 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

So as long as the greens are playable the rest of the course can be hardpan?  Watching the featured group, Matsuyama just hit a drive that rolled 140+ yards after it hit the ground.  It would've rolled further, but it ran into a ditch.  That's "playable"? I've seen plenty of courses I wouldn't pay $10 to play because they only water the greens and look identical to this.  I get this is links golf, but a ball rolling out over 140 yards is ridiculous and in my mind every bit as bad or worse as one unfair green on Shinnecock on one day of the tournament.

I'd hate to be that guy, but I feel like you don't really get links golf. It's not a matter of course design, but more about just using what nature gives you, land and weather. Most of the time it's windy, rainy, and generally cold, and typically all sorts of weird stuff happens from the roll. This year it's dry and all sorts of weird stuff is happening from the roll. It's really just a different face of the same beast IMO.

5 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

The golf course doesn't need to be green, but there should be grass that's alive.  Everything but the greens look dead.  Drives rolling out over 400 yards because it rolled 140 yards after landing is stupid.

The grass isn't dead, it's dormant. They shouldn't be hitting driver if the extra roll is going to bring trouble into play. Plenty of people getting it done out there.

7 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

It being "links golf" shouldn't be allowed to be used as an excuse for the R&A and not the USGA.

It's links golf, and not "links golf" and that's why the USGA gets criticized but the R&A doesn't. The USGA manipulated course maintenance to artificially create the "links-style" for the aforementioned U.S. Opens. This tournament is a result of nature doing her thing.

[Shindig]

1 minute ago, DeadMan said:

Give me this over a US Open with 20 yard fairways and 12 inch rough every day.

You say that like you don't want to see a player risk losing his shoes every time he misses a fairway...  

[RichWW2]

6 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

You're missing the point. You can think your way around this course and do well. Drivers rolling out that far brings a lot of trouble into play. You can't just reach for driver every hole and expect to play well here. Firm and fast makes the fairways narrower and brings more bunkers into play.

The scores also show that it's playable. It's still tough, but you can break par if you play well.

I just have a hard time distinguishing concrete fairways as any less gimimcky than the USGA making the greens ultra fast or the rough really high to prevent players from pulling driver every hole.  One gets criticized while one is "that's what nature has bestowed upon us.  Let's be grateful that it's not like the US Open."

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

I'd hate to be that guy, but I feel like you don't really get links golf. It's not a matter of course design, but more about just using what nature gives you, land and weather. Most of the time it's windy, rainy, and generally cold, and typically all sorts of weird stuff happens from the roll. This year it's dry and all sorts of weird stuff is happening from the roll. It's really just a different face of the same beast IMO.

I understand it, but nobody has said anything other than "it's baked out, oh well", when normally players are out of their minds over any little issue with the course. Just seems weird to me, that's all.

[ChrisP]

1 minute ago, RichWW2 said:

I just have a hard time distinguishing concrete fairways as any less gimimcky than the USGA making the greens ultra fast or the rough really high to prevent players from pulling driver every hole.  One gets criticized while one is "that's what nature has bestowed upon us.  Let's be grateful that it's not like the US Open."

I understand it, but nobody has said anything other than "it's baked out, oh well", when normally players are out of their minds over any little issue with the course. Just seems weird to me, that's all.

What you're seeing today is exactly why people love the British Open. It's what gives the tournament its identity. You're seeing true links golf today where weather dictates things and the superintendents just work around what mother nature gives them. Some years it is as brown as a barn and other years it's as green as Augusta. Not everyone is going to love it, but a lot do. Not everyone loves the PGA, the US Open or the Masters, either.

[Shindig]

Oh Tiger, should have played that chip two cups to the left of where you played it  

Nice save.

[BallStriker]

Beautiful golf course and great conditions......an absolute treat to watch imo

[RichWW2]

2 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

What you're seeing today is exactly why people love the British Open. It's what gives the tournament its identity. You're seeing true links golf today where weather dictates things and the superintendents just work around what mother nature gives them. Some years it is as brown as a barn and other years it's as green as Augusta. Not everyone is going to love it, but a lot do. Not everyone loves the PGA, the US Open or the Masters, either.

Fair enough.

Who doesn't love the Masters? Are people like that even real?

[billchao]

1 minute ago, RichWW2 said:

I just have a hard time distinguishing concrete fairways as any less gimimcky than the USGA making the greens ultra fast or the rough really high to prevent players from pulling driver every hole.  One gets criticized while one is "that's what nature has bestowed upon us.  Let's be grateful that it's not like the US Open."

Again, the difference is the USGA manipulating course maintenance to create course conditions whereas the R&A is basically presenting the course "as-is" due to the abnormally dry summer. The USGA gets criticized because when the conditions are exceptionally difficult to play in, it's their fault.

6 minutes ago, RichWW2 said:

I understand it, but nobody has said anything other than "it's baked out, oh well", when normally players are out of their minds over any little issue with the course. Just seems weird to me, that's all.

See above. When players complain about course conditions, they're generally complaining about how a course is set up by organizers. The course is dried out due to mother nature. Who are they going to complain to about that?

[Shindig]

1 minute ago, RichWW2 said:

Who doesn't love the Masters? Are people like that even real?

Eh, there are people who don't like it.  They think this thing is gimmicky, or they don't like the atmosphere, or think it is a major built around one type of player or something.  One, a few years ago, went to far as to say that the Masters should be held at different golf courses some years (I don't think that person understood what was going on).  

Masters is my favorite sporting event of the year, so it definitely isn't me complaining. 

[Big C]

Food for thought. We just saw Tiger take an iron off the tee on a 490 yard par 4. Presumably this was to stay short of the fairways bunkers. 

If the bunkering off the tee were exactly the same, but the hole was actually a 540 yard par 5, would he have made the same decision?

 

[ChrisP]

The only thing I don't like the about the British is what you're seeing a little bit of today and that's the luck of the draw plays into account more than any other tournament. It happens at the US Open and Masters, too, from time to time but not nearly as much as this one. But then again, that's something you can't control and it's what gives the tournament its identity. You have to deal with it. It is what it is.

[amished]

I love the conditions (when I can actually watch like 5 minutes of it before NBC asks what provider I have (none) and stop their stream).  I think the R&A isn't doing anything to make the course harder, and that's the difference.  USGA basically damages the course when they set up an event.  The way Carnoustie is set up is just like it would be set up any other week (maybe greens a little shorter but still alive) so it's fine.  There aren't special considerations or manipulations to make the course harder than what it normally is, they let the course be.

It is weird as an american to see the brown fairways, but I know that grass under certain conditions should look like that.  Unfortunate that they're going through those conditions now, but they are, it's fair, and everyone has to deal with it.

[colin007]

Tigs.....c'mon. 

Flat out misread that

[Shindig]

21 minutes ago, Big C said:

Food for thought. We just saw Tiger take an iron off the tee on a 490 yard par 4. Presumably this was to stay short of the fairways bunkers. 

If the bunkering off the tee were exactly the same, but the hole was actually a 540 yard par 5, would he have made the same decision?

He just hit an iron off the tee on a par-5, but I think it's shorter than the 540 yards you described.

He then missed the green on his second.

I don't think this answers your question now that I think about it.

[ChrisP]

13 minutes ago, Shindig said:

He just hit an iron off the tee on a par-5, but I think it's shorter than the 540 yards you described.

He then missed the green on his second.

I don't think this answers your question now that I think about it.

Not having a good back 9 thus far. What looked to be a promising round may be falling apart a bit. And he hasn't even hit the hard part of the course yet. 15-18 is brutal.

Like what Rory said about being aggressive. He said even hitting irons off the tee, you bring bunkers into play based on how far it rolls. So he feels it's just a better play going with driver more often.

Edited July 19, 2018 by ChrisP

[Shindig]

I wander out to pick up something from the UPS store and I get back and Tiger's dropped a shot and has to scramble on a par-3.  But when I watch, he makes the save on the par 3.  Sorry if I cost you a shot on #15 Tiger.