Johnny Miller's Legacy

[NCGolfer]

Broadcasting career.

I was never the biggest Johnny Miller fan but he grew on me a bit towards the end.  He made his true mark in the booth.

[Wally Fairway]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

The point was that his legacy is known, despite the fact that he's not been retired for 10-20 years as you've said is necessary.

I disagree with you that he has to retire from broadcasting for 10-20 years to assess his legacy as a broadcaster.

I think even if he had stopped broadcasting ten years ago, I'd still vote that broadcasting is his greater legacy.

He was at the top of the game for a significantly longer time as a broadcaster. He reached and influenced far more people as a broadcaster. And, it was second… Bill Cosby was a comedian, then he was a rapist, basically.

So Johnny Miller's greatest legacy is as a broadcaster, IMO, because it was both greater and later.

I guess I disagree when legacy is measured. You can say what someone is best known for as of today. Koepka's  is winning 3 majors & 2 in a year, Spieth's is similar although some will say his best days are already behind him. I believe that legacy is more than what an impression is today, it is a longer lasting thing.

I thought maybe I was thinking about the term legacy incorrectly, but Webster didn't really help me out
 

Quote

Noun:
1.  gift by will especially of money or other personal property
2. something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past
3. a candidate for membership in an organization (such as a school or fraternal order) who is given special status because of a familial relationship to a member                                     
Adjective:
1. of, relating to, or being a previous or outdated computer system          
2. of, relating to, associated with, or carried over from an earlier time, technology, business, etc.          

Those didn't help - this is the closest I could quickly find, from Longman
Something that happens or exists as a result of things that happened at an earlier time                                                                                                                   

So maybe we should have a thread or poll to figure out what we mean by legacy. I'll admit my 20 year comment was kind of off the cuff, but I still don't think you can define legacy without a passage of time.
(by the way I also tend to not agree with your portrayal of Cosby, I would say he was known as a comedian, then known as a rapist. I would not have any way to say which he was first. But, again it will take time to know, but as of today I'd vote his legacy is as a rapist as that far outshadows his earlier comedic days. And I grew up watching I Spy, The Cosby show, Fat Albert, my parent bought a couple of his albums (to Russell, My Brother was my favorite)

[nevets88]

Hope someone out there makes a best of compilation of his announcing moments. The first time I really listened to him was when what's his name, oy vey, Lee Janzen? He beat Payne Stewart at the Olympic Club. I had that on tape, I mean like real video tape on a VCR, not a digital file, and I didn't even play golf back then. I have no idea why I watched that. I can tell you without looking that Janzen wore a grey vest, I think.

[iacas]

On 10/24/2018 at 8:11 AM, Wally Fairway said:

So maybe we should have a thread or poll to figure out what we mean by legacy.

I don't think that's necessary. I think people have interpreted it their own way and voted accordingly.

[Pretzel]

To me his "greatest" legacy is his playing career, mainly because his broadcasting career doesn't feel so great to me when I remember muting Sunday US Open coverage because he couldn't stop reminding everyone about his 63. It was a good round of golf, but I don't want to hear about it 10+ times in a day as well as throughout the year in various other tournaments.

His broadcasting career had a more significant impact, however, on golf as a whole. It lasted longer and reached far more people than his playing career ever did or will.

[iacas]

59 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

To me his "greatest" legacy is his playing career, mainly because his broadcasting career doesn't feel so great to me when I remember muting Sunday US Open coverage because he couldn't stop reminding everyone about his 63.

That's where I call bullshit. I don't think he does that anywhere near as often as people think. A decade or more ago when that complaint was prevalent I made a point of trying to listen to the number of times that was said.

I don't say that to change your opinion. But I don't think your statement is accurate, either.

[Pretzel]

44 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's where I call bullshit. I don't think he does that anywhere near as often as people think. A decade or more ago when that complaint was prevalent I made a point of trying to listen to the number of times that was said.

I don't say that to change your opinion. But I don't think your statement is accurate, either.

That's fair, I did exaggerate the number slightly and the whole comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I still can't remember a single US Open where it wasn't mentioned at least once, however, and I know I've heard it outside of the US Open when someone shoots a good score on Sunday. I think the most I heard it was back in 2007 when the Open was back at Oakmont and in 2016 at the Open Championship when Henrik shot 63 to win on Sunday like Miller did. Those two events were appropriate to make comparisons during, however.

My realistic complaint is just that I feel like he's pretty negative sometimes (ironic, considering I'm using it as the reason I don't prefer him), and I prefer Faldo in that respect. Miller calls it how he sees it, which is nice, but how he sees it is just a bit critical for me.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

That's fair, I did exaggerate the number slightly and the whole comment was a bit tongue in cheek. I still can't remember a single US Open where it wasn't mentioned at least once, however, and I know I've heard it outside of the US Open when someone shoots a good score on Sunday. I think the most I heard it was back in 2007 when the Open was back at Oakmont and in 2016 at the Open Championship when Henrik shot 63 to win on Sunday like Miller did. Those two events were appropriate to make comparisons during, however.

I feel like almost every time it's brought up, it was Gary Koch… or one of the other walking or tower guys, and then Johnny downplayed it and moved on.

[phan52]

I remember Miller as a player and saw him play live many times and I even caddied in a group with him for two rounds on the Tour back in the 70's (I had Jerry McGee's bag). But his broadcasting career is what I will remember most because I think he was the best. 

[Herkimer]

Doesn't "legacy" mean how people will remember you even after we're all dead?  Who will remember any golf announcer/analyst in 50 years?  Do young people even know the name "Ken Venturi?"  If Johnny is remembered at all in future generations, I think it will have to be as the golfer.  Nicklaus, the golf architect, will still be remembered more as the golfer. 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

Doesn't "legacy" mean how people will remember you even after we're all dead?  Who will remember any golf announcer/analyst in 50 years?  Do young people even know the name "Ken Venturi?"  If Johnny is remembered at all in future generations, I think it will have to be as the golfer.  Nicklaus, the golf architect, will still be remembered more as the golfer. 

I know Ken Venturi. And I know him as a player, too.

Nicklaus as an architect is not comparable to Johnny Miller as an announcer.

[Herkimer]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

I know Ken Venturi. And I know him as a player, too.

Nicklaus as an architect is not comparable to Johnny Miller as an announcer.

What you should have said is that Johnny Miller as a golfer is not comparable to Jack Nicklaus as a golfer.  Either way, as golfers, we study the history of golf and not the history of announcers.  Let me add this: I'm a big fan of both of Johnny's careers.  I'm not happy he's leaving NBC.  And I'm glad that he'll be remembered either way.

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

What you should have said is that Johnny Miller as a golfer is not comparable to Jack Nicklaus as a golfer.

Nah, that was obvious, and you were the one who brought up Nicklaus as an architect.

Nicklaus: player >> architect
Miller: announcer >> player

18 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

Either way, as golfers, we study the history of golf and not the history of announcers.

Clearly "we" don't, as the poll is over 75% in favor of broadcasting right now.

[turtleback]

1 hour ago, Herkimer said:

What you should have said is that Johnny Miller as a golfer is not comparable to Jack Nicklaus as a golfer.  Either way, as golfers, we study the history of golf and not the history of announcers.  Let me add this: I'm a big fan of both of Johnny's careers.  I'm not happy he's leaving NBC.  And I'm glad that he'll be remembered either way.

In studying the history of golf we learn a lot about it's chroniclers, from Bernard Darwin, to OB Keeler, to Grantland Rice, to Henry Longhurst, to Herbert Warren Wind, to Dan Jenkins  to Mark Frost, to (gag) John Feinstein, and beyond.  So I reject your premise.  But then again, most people DON'T study the history of golf any deeper than their newspaper.  

[Herkimer]

On 11/6/2018 at 1:14 PM, iacas said:

Nah, that was obvious, and you were the one who brought up Nicklaus as an architect.

Nicklaus: player >> architect
Miller: announcer >> player

Clearly "we" don't, as the poll is over 75% in favor of broadcasting right now.

This is a contemporary analysis.  I'm looking at it from an historical perspective.

[iacas]

31 minutes ago, Herkimer said:

This is a contemporary analysis.  I'm looking at it from an historical perspective.

So am I. Johnny Miller reached and influenced > 10x more golfers as a broadcaster than as a player.

[BallMarker]

Either answer is ok.

Just wondering how many here remember Johnny Miller's playing days. 

Maybe those who answered his boardcasting, don't remember, or don't know, how good of a player he was.

He's kinda like Phil Mickelson in that they both had to deal with a very dominate opponent, Nicklaus and Woods.

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, BallMarker said:

Either answer is ok.

Just wondering how many here remember Johnny Miller's playing days. 

Maybe those who answered his boardcasting, don't remember, or don't know, how good of a player he was.

He's kinda like Phil Mickelson in that they both had to deal with a very dominate opponent, Nicklaus and Woods.

I remember both and I think his broadcasting outweighs his playing as far as legacy status.