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Redefine Loose Impediments


gjunkie57
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This is NOT specific to Brooks Koepka, just a general observation

Today Brooks Koepka hit his tee shot into an area that had a boulder in it. It took about a half dozen guys to move this boulder. Under rule 15 he gets to do this with no penalty. I think this is ridiculous. Lets redefine loose impediment as something movable by the player unassisted. Anything else is a immovable obstruction and would fall under rule 16.

Rationale: Tournament players have access to assistance from their caddie, marshals, and spectators to assist with moving heavy, large objects. The average weekend player does not. So the current definition of loose impediment allows an advantage during tournament play that may not be available in other situations.

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13 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

I think this is ridiculous. Lets redefine loose impediment as something movable by the player unassisted. Anything else is a immovable obstruction and would fall under rule 16.

Rationale: Tournament players have access to assistance from their caddie, marshals, and spectators to assist with moving heavy, large objects. The average weekend player does not. So the current definition of loose impediment allows an advantage during tournament play that may not be available in other situations.

I don't think it's ridiculous.

Neither does the USGA/R&A. In the many years since Tiger had the boulder moved (they moved it the wrong direction, in fact…), the USGA and R&A have had many opportunities to revise the Rule.

They've not done so, despite "modernizing" and completely rewriting every Rule. So that tells me they have no interest in re-writing this rule either.

Your rationale doesn't entirely hold up either.

  • Not even every player in the same tournament has access to the same galleries, etc. but…
  • … they're close, and the "average weekend player" isn't playing in the same tournament. Within each event, the conditions are fairly similar.

Why should a ten-year-old girl not be able to move a 25-pound log out of the way when her father caddying for her could do it easily?

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5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Why should a ten-year-old girl not be able to move a 25-pound log out of the way when her father caddying for her could do it easily?

This is the realization I just had right as I was reading your response.

There are golfers who only have one leg or one arm. Should they be limited by their handicap on what is defined as a loose impediment.

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The origin of this ruling goes back 40 or more years before Tiger's incident. An elderly lady encountered a large fallen bough over her ball. She was too week to move it on her own but together with her companions, they managed it. The question was raised with the R&A resulting in the Decision that Tiger took took advantage of.

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2 hours ago, gjunkie57 said:

This is NOT specific to Brooks Koepka, just a general observation

Today Brooks Koepka hit his tee shot into an area that had a boulder in it. It took about a half dozen guys to move this boulder. Under rule 15 he gets to do this with no penalty. I think this is ridiculous. Lets redefine loose impediment as something movable by the player unassisted. Anything else is a immovable obstruction and would fall under rule 16.

Rationale: Tournament players have access to assistance from their caddie, marshals, and spectators to assist with moving heavy, large objects. The average weekend player does not. So the current definition of loose impediment allows an advantage during tournament play that may not be available in other situations.

You haven’t seen ridiculousness until you’ve seen some of the antics at my home course to move “loose impediments” 🤪

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8 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't think it's ridiculous.

Neither does the USGA/R&A. In the many years since Tiger had the boulder moved (they moved it the wrong direction, in fact…), the USGA and R&A have had many opportunities to revise the Rule.

They've not done so, despite "modernizing" and completely rewriting every Rule. So that tells me they have no interest in re-writing this rule either.

Your rationale doesn't entirely hold up either.

  • Not even every player in the same tournament has access to the same galleries, etc. but…
  • … they're close, and the "average weekend player" isn't playing in the same tournament. Within each event, the conditions are fairly similar.

Why should a ten-year-old girl not be able to move a 25-pound log out of the way when her father caddying for her could do it easily?

Good points.

So how long do I get to round up enough guys to move the boulder? And who carries the liability in case someone gets injured doing it?

Sticks and twigs are one thing, boulders are another   

 

 

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16 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

So how long do I get to round up enough guys to move the boulder? And who carries the liability in case someone gets injured doing it?

You must play without undue delay.

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OK I agree that 10 people moving a rock is kind of ridiculous. But no matter what someone will have an advantage that you do not. And really in the big picture when would this really make a big difference in your life unless you were on tour and in contention?

JAT

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11 hours ago, gjunkie57 said:

Rationale: Tournament players have access to assistance from their caddie, marshals, and spectators to assist with moving heavy, large objects. The average weekend player does not. 

I'm an average weekend player and I dont have access to assistance from ball spotters to watch where my ball goes and find it in the rough like tournament players do, does that mean I should get a free drop right about where I think it should be? 

Of course not. 

I dont have the benefit of having a grandstand less than 5 yards off the back of the green like they did last week on the 18th at Torrey Pines. Does that mean I get a free drop whenever I hit it O.B. over the back of the green because it would have hit a grandstand in a PGA tournament? 

Of course not.

We play the same sport as the guys on tour play, but it's a completely different game.

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Maybe I ought to rent a Bobcat instead of a golf cart.  That impediment may not be loose now...but it is 'fin' to be.

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35 minutes ago, Piz said:

Maybe I ought to rent a Bobcat instead of a golf cart.  That impediment may not be loose now...but it is 'fin' to be.

Rent the Hummer golf cart, throw a chain around it and drag it out.  

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53 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

Rent the Hummer golf cart, throw a chain around it and drag it out.  

No need, just hook up that chain to two or three regular golf carts, what’s the use of a foursome if they’re not there to help move a few “loose impediments”?  😂

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15 hours ago, Rulesman said:

The origin of this ruling goes back 40 or more years before Tiger's incident. An elderly lady encountered a large fallen bough over her ball. She was too week to move it on her own but together with her companions, they managed it. The question was raised with the R&A resulting in the Decision that Tiger took took advantage of.

This one was in the USGA version of the Decisions when I bought my first copy back in the 90's.  The Tiger incident replaced this one shortly after that very well televised ruling (with Ken Venturi swearing up and down that there was no way that Tiger was allowed have a bunch of patrons help him move that boulder).

Rick

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I wasn't aware the words changed as a result of the Woods' incident. The narrative story used by the R&A was certainly changed when the first combined rules were published (1952?) and probably again in 1984 with the last major revision of the rules.

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8 hours ago, criley4way said:

OK I agree that 10 people moving a rock is kind of ridiculous. But no matter what someone will have an advantage that you do not. And really in the big picture when would this really make a big difference in your life unless you were on tour and in contention?

JAT

Sure, most people will just follow Rule 28 and take the penalty.

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8 hours ago, Lihu said:

No need, just hook up that chain to two or three regular golf carts, what’s the use of a foursome if they’re not there to help move a few “loose impediments”?  😂

Backhoe golf carts!

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5 hours ago, Rulesman said:

I hope not. There isn't one 😉

Oops, 19.

Just download the app on my new phone 😇

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Note: This thread is 1343 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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