Questions For My Rules Seminar (2019)

[iacas]

So on March 16-19, @GolfLug and I will be attending another USGA/PGA Rules seminar. I currently have a list of three things to ask about, but I'm curious if there are others:

1. Prolonged use of music on the course. Etiquette? If not to aid you in playing, why?
2. Balls "embedded" in sand-filled divots.
3. Agreeing to leave a ball in place "to help a player."

 

I might feel I know how they'll be answered, but I've told people I'd ask, and share the generalized response…

Any others? If they're clear, I may just say "no, that's clear" and shoot the idea down pretty quickly.

[Missouri Swede]

Did we ever get an answer about ballmarkers with lines potentially being a violation (could be used to mark line of play on the green)--rule 10.2b?

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

Did we ever get an answer about ballmarkers with lines potentially being a violation (could be used to mark line of play on the green)--rule 10.2b?

No, I don't want them to look at me like I'm stupid.

[Rulesman]

Erik

Try this please:

Can a ball to be moved be marked with the toe of a club and a ball-marker be placed at the heel. Then, when the ball is to be replaced,  the heel placed next to the ball-marker and the ball replaced at the toe.
 

 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Can a ball to be moved be marked with the toe of a club and a ball-marker be placed at the heel. Then, when the ball is to be replaced,  the heel placed next to the ball-marker and the ball replaced at the toe.

Why would I ask that? Genuinely asking. Seems fine to me - the player made a reasonable effort to put the ball back in the same place.

[Rulesman]

I have no problem with it but it seems that other qualified referees disagree

[boogielicious]

The embedded ball rule change allows a player to drop through the course now including rough. It really helped JB Holmes last week when his bunker shot was driven deep into the grass lip of the green. Was this kind of situation the intention of the rule change? It seems rather lenient in Holmes’ situation.

[Asheville]

19 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

Did we ever get an answer about ballmarkers with lines potentially being a violation (could be used to mark line of play on the green)--rule 10.2b?

I emailed that to USGA and got the answer to a different question. They assured me that it was okay to use a line on the ball , , , like who didn't know that was permitted?

I put it down to January workload.

Erik, ask about ball-markers with lines. I cannot imagine they're treated any differently than balls with lines.

[Rulesman]

I thought that is what Erik did but got an answer to a different question.

[Vinsk]

10 hours ago, Asheville said:

Erik, ask about ball-markers with lines.

 

On 2/22/2019 at 6:34 PM, iacas said:

No, I don't want them to look at me like I'm stupid.

 

[iacas]

On 2/23/2019 at 7:10 AM, boogielicious said:

The embedded ball rule change allows a player to drop through the course now including rough. It really helped JB Holmes last week when his bunker shot was driven deep into the grass lip of the green. Was this kind of situation the intention of the rule change? It seems rather lenient in Holmes’ situation.

I don't understand the question, or I'm not sure what I'd ask.

If the ball was embedded in its own pitch mark in the general area, then yah, that's what the Rule is intended to cover. If JB drove the ball into the grass lip of the bunker or something and got relief… then that's what the rule covers.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't understand the question, or I'm not sure what I'd ask.

If the ball was embedded in its own pitch mark in the general area, then yah, that's what the Rule is intended to cover. If JB drove the ball into the grass lip of the bunker or something and got relief… then that's what the rule covers.

It really wasn't just embedded in a pitch mark as I think of it. It was driven 4 inches into the ground, completely covered. It took him a minute or two to find it a dig it out. It would have been unplayable last year and cost him a stroke. Maybe I am misunderstanding the intent of the rule, but JB clearly used it to his advantage.

[DaveP043]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

It really wasn't just embedded in a pitch mark as I think of it. It was driven 4 inches into the ground, completely covered. It took him a minute or two to find it a dig it out. It would have been unplayable last year and cost him a stroke. Maybe I am misunderstanding the intent of the rule, but JB clearly used it to his advantage.

If the ball is driven 4 inches into the ground, its clearly in its own pitchmark.  Yes, it was a lucky break that it didn't embed into the face of the sand, but I'd say the rule worked as intended.

After the Thailand backstopping issue, I'd say that would be a worthwhile topic to explore.  There seems to be a gap between what @iacas has indicated is the appropriate interpretation of the rule, as opposed to the actual wording of the rule.

[Rulesman]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

. It would have been unplayable last year and cost him a stroke. 

Why would it not have been embedded last year?

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Why would it not have been embedded last year?

Before, the embedded ball rule applied to closely mown areas. Now it is everywhere.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/relief-for-an-embedded-ball.html

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Before, the embedded ball rule applied to closely mown areas. Now it is everywhere.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/relief-for-an-embedded-ball.html

The PGA Tour extended it via the Local Rule on their hard card.

[iacas]

I'm adding the Harold Varner III situation and Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1. Though I think the HVIII situation was ruled correctly, because the shaft was being carried around for him by the walking scorer (and the caddie knew), but 4.1b(4)/1 strikes me as odd:

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=interp&section=rule&rulenum=4&subrulenum=10

4.1b(4)/1 – Club Components May Be Assembled When Not Carried By or For Player

Rule 4.1b(4) restricts a player from building a club from parts that he or she is carrying or parts that any other person is carrying for him or her. It does not restrict the player from retrieving parts to build a club or having parts brought to him or her.

For example, if a player is permitted to add a club (see Rule 4.1b(1)) or replace a damaged club (see Rule 4.1b(3)), club components brought from the clubhouse (such as the player’s locker), the golf shop, or a manufacturer’s truck, or other similar locations, are not considered to be “carried by anyone for the player during the round ” and are allowed to be assembled by the player or anyone else.

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

I'm adding the Harold Varner III situation and Interpretation 4.1b(4)/1. Though I think the HVIII situation was ruled correctly, because the shaft was being carried around for him by the walking scorer (and the caddie knew), but 4.1b(4)/1 strikes me as odd:

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=interp&section=rule&rulenum=4&subrulenum=10

4.1b(4)/1 – Club Components May Be Assembled When Not Carried By or For Player

Rule 4.1b(4) restricts a player from building a club from parts that he or she is carrying or parts that any other person is carrying for him or her. It does not restrict the player from retrieving parts to build a club or having parts brought to him or her.

For example, if a player is permitted to add a club (see Rule 4.1b(1)) or replace a damaged club (see Rule 4.1b(3)), club components brought from the clubhouse (such as the player’s locker), the golf shop, or a manufacturer’s truck, or other similar locations, are not considered to be “carried by anyone for the player during the round ” and are allowed to be assembled by the player or anyone else.

So they want the player to run to the clubhouse and retrieve the part then?