What is the best way to get forward shaft lean through impact?

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by PaulMVR

wow, I think this stuff is gonna drive me nuts

Paul the one thing i can tell you is you have to learn to walk before you can run, give the Breed video a try, it will feel more natural and easier to implement then you can move onto a more technical method. Its not going to happen over night so its better sticking with a method that you can understand and put into practice The thing i noticed about your swing is you start from the top far too fast, if you can imagine a car going round a bend and if you enter the bend too fast you will come out slower so you have to go slower to come out faster, in other words you'll have more speed at the bottom of the swing, the ball will go just as far with what will feel a lot less effort

[iacas]

Originally Posted by PaulMVR

I always thought the forward shaft lean would happen automatically if you turned through the shot properly. But they're saying to be a good ball striker you need to hold that wrist angle and keep the shaft leaning forward with a conscious effort.

It's not automatic for a lot of people. Flipping becomes automatic, though, because if your upper center is moving backwards during the downswing - for example - then you have to flip to try to save any kind of decent contact.

Originally Posted by laxbballgolf

I don't think anyone should be taught to try to hold the wedge all the way through to the finish (if holding the wedge is even the correct term- but you know what I mean - maintain wrist angles that are required for a forward shaft lean).  I simply think it's impossible to do if you swing with full power.

I would be inclined to agree. However, I will say that rehinging rates can affect how long the wedge stays in, and the longest players rehinge the club quickly as well.

Bear in mind that what's written in the book is often a feeling, and for a lot of people, they flat out need to hold the wedge (via some means, rarely by literally trying to "hold the wedge") much, much longer.

But, again, we never just say "hold it longer." We do things to make people hold it longer.

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

Paul the one thing i can tell you is you have to learn to walk before you can run, give the Breed video a try, it will feel more natural and easier to implement then you can move onto a more technical method.

The problem with the Breed video is that 99% of people who try to "feel" that release happening a foot or two after the ball will start the release a foot or two (or more) before the golf ball.

[Harmonious]

Johnny Miller had a quick tip the other week, one that I had not heard before.  He said to visualize a line perpendicular to the target line through the ball, so it would basically run from the ball through the middle of your stance, more or less.  As you approach impact, make sure the butt end of your club passes over to the target side of that line.  If you do that, there is no way you can't achieve a forward shaft lean.  Give that one a try.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by iacas

The problem with the Breed video is that 99% of people who try to "feel" that release happening a foot or two after the ball will start the release a foot or two (or more) before the golf ball.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, i've every confidence in Paul to achieve some sort of lag if he uses Breeds short tip

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, i've every confidence in Paul to achieve some sort of lag if he uses Breeds short tip

Because I'm an instructor and I've seen what people tend to do when they are told things and given different sensations. Most people trying to feel the thing Breed suggests will still flip. It'll change what they do before the ball, and may make it worse.

[Harmonious]

Please, please, please... Let's not make this another Erik vs Breed thread!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Please, please, please... Let's not make this another Erik vs Breed thread!

I agree. How about a thread where former short hitters lacking a forward press at impact can discuss their path to hitting longer more consistent shots. I know there's a thread where 1/2 decent players said how they got where they are, but let's put a spin on it. How many people have improved by watching The Golf Channel? Based on the number of doubters whenever someone posts their 7-iron distance as > 150 yards, I'd say that number is extremely small.

[jmanbooyaa]

The Golf Channel confuses me, I am enjoying the golf lessons from the pages of Golf Magazine. Some of them make good sense and shows pictures as where the ball should be hands should be etc.

[timwat]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I agree. How about a thread where former short hitters lacking a forward press at impact can discuss their path to hitting longer more consistent shots. I know there's a thread where 1/2 decent players said how they got where they are, but let's put a spin on it. How many people have improved by watching The Golf Channel? Based on the number of doubters whenever someone posts their 7-iron distance as > 150 yards, I'd say that number is extremely small.

Both Breed and Hall have given novel ideas which I've toyed with, with limited success.  When I retell them to the pro I'm working with, he never directly calls it bunk...but provides direct instruction and exercises which do a much better job of accomplishing the intended result than The Golf Channel instruction does.  At least for me.

[Robato]

I like the Breed tips, but I think some of them are for fixing advanced swing situations, not for learning the basic concepts. Getting a forward leaning shaft impact position aint easy. I can explain how I achieve it: I try to use a totally passive arms swing by relaxing the hands with waggles before starting. In order to get a good shaft lean, I try to have a good wedge or wrist cock at the top of the backswing. Its not easy, and at first I used a too tight grip to achieve it. Also, I used a lot of camera work to check if the wrist is actually cocked and staying that way through the downswing. I think the way to make it all work is to use passive hands, and get the body moving forward at impact, so the hands and club are lagging through, and it feels like the hands 'merely went along for the ride,' as a famous golfer once said.

So I think a forward shaft is really a gold mine, the final frontier of the swing, but its a result of a lot of other parts coming together. A good drill I use to get the feel of the forward body movement, is to hit balls with about a 50% swing, and after impact, step through with the right foot lifting and stepping easily in front of the ball mat. The only way to do it smoothly is to have nice control of the body moving forward at impact. A pro taught me this, and we call it the Gary Player drill.

[senorchipotle]

op... it's not about swinging the club or the hands fast, it's about not stopping momentum. you just need to know what it feels like to have your right wrist bent backwards at impact. once you start doing this you will automatically know when it's not and will be able to correct the problem. you should be able to take the tour striker and swing it slowly and still hit the ball. your hands do not hit the ball, so quit trying to hit the ball with them, that is the job of the club. this video should help you tremendously:

[inthecup]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I agree. How about a thread where former short hitters lacking a forward press at impact can discuss their path to hitting longer more consistent shots. I know there's a thread where 1/2 decent players said how they got where they are, but let's put a spin on it. How many people have improved by watching The Golf Channel? Based on the number of doubters whenever someone posts their 7-iron distance as > 150 yards, I'd say that number is extremely small.

I struggled with this for years.  My miss was fat with a flip.  My wedges dropped like rain.  I hit a 52 degree wedge 110 full swing and it came straight down.  Wedges are the worst example.  I had reasonable distance but I swung hard.  I tried the hold the club thought.  Really bad things happen, don't do that.  Recently I have been able to achieve forward leaning shaft as verified through video.

It is early but my ball flight including wedges is way down.  Divots moved forward and I am feeling more positive then ever.  This is the feeling that allowed me to achieve this.

1.)  On the down swing don't explode in the transition build the swing let it happen.

2.) Start the swing with the lower body, back hip leads.

3.)  Hold your back elbow to you side for as long as you can, this naturally slows the tempo of the swing.  Your hip can only move so fast.

4.) Let your arms be passive the let the club "drag".  Your hands and arms have to be relaxed.

5.) Also you must slide your hips forward.

If I pull the club through with hip and body rotation the lag happens, it is not forced.  Quite amazing when it clicked.

I am working on dialing this in with lessons from a pro but I finally feel like I am not far from technically correct.

The best training aid for me is aid video.  I have a basic program that lets me compare my swing to a pro side by side and it is very illuminating.  Video does not lie.

You need a high frame rate camera.  I use a Kodak Zi8, if I was to buy one now I would get a Casio.

Good luck!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

How about a thread where former short hitters lacking a forward press at impact can discuss their path to hitting longer more consistent shots. I know there's a thread where 1/2 decent players said how they got where they are, but let's put a spin on it. How many people have improved by watching The Golf Channel? Based on the number of doubters whenever someone posts their 7-iron distance as > 150 yards, I'd say that number is extremely small.

Sounds like two threads to me... You should start those threads.

[awmgolfer]

For me it was the weight transfer, I wasn't doing it properly so I was holding much of my weight back which resulted in the flipping. Another common issue I see at least with the jr. golfers I work with is they slow their hands down right at impact which results in the flipping instead of continuing the swing all the way through.

[Kieran123]

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/42362/a-good-impact-drill

[JackLee]

Originally Posted by PaulMVR

I've seen the Tour Striker infomercial, and I don't know if I like the whole idea. On it, they said that you're supposed to hold the wrist angle longer through impact so your hands are in front of the ball. They even had a scratch golfer(or better) on there saying that all he thinks about is keeping the shaft forward through impact. And they had Kevin Streelman on there saying how cool the tour striker is.

I always thought the forward shaft lean would happen automatically if you turned through the shot properly. But they're saying to be a good ball striker you need to hold that wrist angle and keep the shaft leaning forward with a conscious effort.

Edit:  Do you hold the wrist angle longer / lean the shaft forward on purpose, or do you get the proper shaft lean from using your lower body correctly?

You get the proper shaft lean from using your entire body correctly.  No independent arm swinging.

[tanktwo2]

Originally Posted by JackLee

You get the proper shaft lean from using your entire body correctly.  No independent arm swinging.

This is the key.  Attach the arms to the body and swing the body.

just focus on keeping a flat left wrist through impact...and start with hitting little punch shots.

The tour striker pro is a great tool BTW.  I bought one and its forces you to get the shaft leaning toward the target.

[blackie2]